September 1998
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit pomales
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Brandon Cline
- Equipment Fit Matthew R. Sheahan
- Equipment Fit Chris Gray
- VT-100 and other terminal data J C Lawrence
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ben Greear
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Holly Sommer
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ross Nicoll
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? T. Alexander Popiel
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Marc Hernandez
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) quzah
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Jon A. Lambert
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Nathan F Yospe
- Wild idea.. :) Damion Schubert
- Wild idea.. :) Chris Gray
- Re:Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- ADMIN: Unsubscription J C Lawrence
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions T. Alexander Popiel
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions Adam Wiggins
- npc memory and reactions Richard Woolcock
- npc memory and reactions Ross Nicoll
- (fwd) CODE RELEASE: [server] SlashMUD (MacOS mud server) J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam Wiggins
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Travis S. Casey
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit, enlightenment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Adventure on the web J C Lawrence
- A Java front end to ECGS (finally) J C Lawrence
- PERL based MUDs J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem Koster, Raph
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Vadim Tkachenko
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Chris Gray
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Alex Stewart
- OT: Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Equipment fit revisited Andy Cink
- X, Y & Z. Scott Cade
- An accidental experiment with language Damion Schubert
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions Alex Oren
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- cellular automata as universe models Joel Kelso
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- [off-topic] news! Travis Casey
- [off-topic] news! J C Lawrence
- [off-topic] news! Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
- Introducing the background hook Ling
- Introducing the background hook J C Lawrence
- Introducing the background hook chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Introducing the background hook Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Introducing the background hook Matt Chatterley
- Off-topic! Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Lockless DB design (was Fw: lurker emerges) J C Lawrence
- PCCTS->ANTLR J C Lawrence
- MOSIX: Multi-computer Operating System for unIX J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Hal Black
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Matthew R. Sheahan
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Richard Woolcock
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jo Dillon
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Damion Schubert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marc Hernandez
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths T. Alexander Popiel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Chris Gray
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths S. Patrick Gallaty
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ryan Prince
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jon A. Lambert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Project: ROADS database of MUD-related papers? J C Lawrence
- Admin J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- AR's idea database Oliver Jowett
- AR's idea database James Wilson
- Forced story line... quzah [sotfhome]
- Forced story line... Marc Hernandez
- Forced story line... Damion Schubert
- ADMIN: Digests are now functioning J C Lawrence
- (had no title) quzah [sotfhome]
- (subject missing) Vladimir Prelovac
- (subject missing) J C Lawrence
- META: Web posting from list archives J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? S. Patrick Gallaty
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Adam J. Thornton
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Chris Gray
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Koster, Raph
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Joel Kelso
- META: What are you looking for in this list? ##Make Nylander
- META: What are you looking for in this list? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Felix A. Croes
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Jon A. Lambert
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Marian Griffith
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Matt Chatterley
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Alex Stewart
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: who are we? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? quzah [sotfhome]
- META: who are we? Richard Woolcock
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? James Wilson
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Petri Virkkula
- META: who are we? Scatter
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? Holly Sommer
- META: who are we? Marian Griffith
- META: who are we? Marc Hernandez
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: who are we? ApplePiMan@aol.com
- META: who are we? Alex Stewart
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Marc Hernandez
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jo Dillon
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Andy Cink
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? ##Make Nylander
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Richard Woolcock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Hal Black
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Raph & Kristen Koster
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Medievia Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon A. Lambert
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Marc Hernandez
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft T. Alexander Popiel
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon Leonard
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Oliver Jowett
- let's call it a spellcraft J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- spell design systems Travis Casey
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD Source release 1.6.0 Ben Greear
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking Travis Casey
- Spellchecking Koster, Raph
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we?/What are you looking for? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Legend's speech system and moods Koster, Raph
- Legend's speech system and moods Raph & Kristen Koster
- Legend's speech system and moods quzah [sotfhome]
- Putting names on things(Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev] META: What are you looking for in this list? Scatter
- Object transitions, was Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Vadim Tkachenko
- META: hat are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- What about minimal spanning trees? was: what do we want Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Summary of off-list META comments: J C Lawrence
- FYI: gamora Vadim Tkachenko
- FYI: gamora Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. T. Alexander Popiel
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Brandon J. Rickman
- Metroworks JIT for Linux J C Lawrence
- numbers - was spellcraft Orion Henry
- Zelda Online Orion Henry
- FPL: Another embeddable bytecoded scripting language J C Lawrence
- Game Design Issues (Was: let's call it a spel Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Matthew R. Sheahan
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon A. Lambert
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Kylotan
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam J. Thornton
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon Leonard
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Nathan F Yospe
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Travis Casey
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) J C Lawrence
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev] apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Marian Griffith
- Room descriptions Orion Henry
- Room descriptions Raph & Kristen Koster
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions #Make Nylander
- Room descriptions quzah [sotfhome]
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Wiggins [mailto:adam@angel.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:08 PM
> To: 'mud-dev@kanga.nu'
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > Hmm, I really wonder whether an awareness of the "old way"
> as a "way"
> > was really present, if you know what I mean. Meaning, how
> many decided
> > to view the split between simulationist and storytelling as
> an aesthetic
> > choice, and how many actually just made the hodgepodge
> because it was
> > all they knew?
>
> I doubt they weighed the different approaches they could
> take: they started with a certain codebase, and tried to make the
> best mud they could. In time many of the originally very
> scripted elements
> became more simulationist; many objects in rooms that were
> originally just
> extra descs became real objects that could be manipulated in a more
> consistent manner.
That's kind of what I was trying to get at with this thread, Adam...
that I don't think people have really tried to REALLY do a storytelling
based environment well, and that maybe it's a valuable direction to
explore. When you said that "this is how muds now do it" I was rather
taken aback, because I can't really think of any muds that do it as
their real purpose.
Now, remember, I say this as a simulationist myself. :) But I have to
admit that the one thing that really gave me chills when I read about
Physmud was that if you drank a love potion, it made you see the world
like a person in love.
Doing this with simulation is mot only somewhat difficult, but also
raises the question of where the burden of the fiction falls: on the
player, or on the world? The love potion, by actually starting to
simulate the state of mind of the character you are playing, probably
crosses the line for many players.
Yet it fascinates me--the idea of entering a world where my actions were
constrained or encouraged in different ways from the way I myself might
behave (echoes of JCL's functional roleplaying?) seems like a worthwhile
one from a design perspective.
> I would say that one of the best things mud dev has done is made
> potential new admins analyze the existing art a little more carefully,
> and maybe realize that they *do* have a choice as to how they are
> going to approach it.
Amen.
[snip regarding UO's success compared to Gemstone's]
> True. In this case I'm not referring to monetary success, but rather
> impact on the gaming population as a whole. Perhaps it's not fair to
> Gemstone that the (potential) online gaming population is now
> much larger to due availibility of both computers and cheap internet
> connections, but there you go.
Very true--the way I'd describe it is that UO is the first online game
to really penetrate the typical gaming market (and to some extent, the
mass market). It is in fact a bit of a shock when you as an admin or
designer find yourself having to cater to people who don't know what
Unix IS, btw. The administrative problems we had increased dramatically
as we reached the broader audience--much less empathy for fellow players
was present, a lot less understanding of persistence, very little
instinctive grasp of the need for cooperative play in defending what was
valuable...
In fact, the proportion of people who "don't get it" is one of the
reasons why UO has repeatedly had to flirt with external control of the
playerbase, rather than allowing players to self-determine on matters
like policing, etc. The playerbase was simply not ready for doing so,
and in fact may never be because of issues of scale and the amount of
time more casual players are willing to devote to a game.
> What we're talking about, a simulationist engine. :)
I'd credit a lot of its success to it. The cities, houses, vendor-based
economy (btw, UO now has something I've never seen before though I
imagine it must have existed before--there's now an EXCHANGE RATE
between UO gold and real world money...) and the numerous businesses and
such that have cropped up are all due to the simulationist approach.
> > Graphics? The fact of graphics in itself was not new.
> > The display engine? Bitmapped 640x480 16 bit color was nifty when we
> > started, but was just up to par when we shipped, and is now dated.
> Indeed. I would refer to the art as "functional" (it works well and
> there's a ton of it), but not really pretty. Ultima 8 probably was
> more aethetically pleasing.
I prefer UO's to U8's, but U8's perspective is nicer. As far as
resolution and color depth, UO is all over U8... (For those of you
making tile-based engines: square tiles are easier to make in large
quantities than diamond-shaped ones; and rotated 45 degree square ones
are easier to make than true isometric "squashed diamond" ones).
> Bah, I remember your post to the Legend message board asking
> for beta testers,
> you think that didn't get people excited? :)
All 80 of them, sure. :) We had 50,000 applicants for beta testing,
though.
> Whether it was internal or external marketing, it still boils down to
the
> same thing for the purpose of my question. Simply by coming from
Origin
> rather than (say) KosterSoft, Inc. generated quite a bit of buzz.
No question. :)
> Only 5 ads, really? I could have sworn I saw both that one with the
> picture of the back of some woman's neck and the one with the
> Tim Hildebrant
> painting on the back of at least a couple game magazines for
> many months
> running.
5 months, yeah. :) I think it was only 2 magazines.
Compare, though, to say, Unreal, which had a two-page foldout in the
inside front cover of ALL the game mags for a solid year.
> I call that a fair amount of marketing, especially since the ads
> were well done (in contrast to the ads for games like Kesmai and
MPath,
> which have usually looked pretty amatuerish).
Well, that's a different issue. :)
> In other words, you DO think the simulation element had a big effect
on
> the size of the playerbase and the game press' interest in it.
Absolutely. I think the degree of freedom promised was a lot of what
attracted people. It's interesting that UO was never really called a mud
by people, whereas M59 was actualy marketed as a mud. This may be
because of the emphasis on the simulationist side.
> True, but you know what I mean - KosterSoft, Inc releasing their
> simulationist, multiplayer game The Legend of Legend! With 16-bit,
> scrolling graphics! Be a fisherman, a tailor, or an alchemist! etc.
It would sink without a trace, IMHO.
> Very true. A similar effect is happening elsewhere, as well:
> movie studios,
> record companies, and other entertainment publishers want to
> put all their
> money behind sure-fire successes and bump off the less likely
> candidates.
Comparing the video game industry to the movie industry is very popular.
There are many parallels including the studio system, with mostly
anonymous "stars," the rise of the independent artist-run studio, most
of which then go bankrupt, the real money being in publishing, etc etc.
> The statistic I heard is that 300 new computer games get
> released every month.
> Of those, the average software store stocks the "top" (as
> rated by magazines
> and other market tests) 50 or so. At the end of the month
> they clear most of
> those out to make room for the next 50.
It costs $50,000 per retailer to get a spot on the shelf. Per month. If
you miss your date, you lost your $50,000. Per retailer/retail chain.
Multiplied by the size of the shalf space you wanted. You get the
idea...
> True, but Diablo wasn't an ongoing world (with, I might add,
> an ongoing
> pay-to-play), so it missed its chance.
Not really missed much, given how successful it was. :)
> But this raises another good question: could Blizzard have turned
> Diablo into a game with the scope and long-term playability as UO,
> and still be going just as strong today? Or would people have gotten
> bored of the same-sameness, and this is the reason why UO's approach
> was "better" in the long run?
Diablo is still going VERY strong, btw. It keeps creeping back into the
top ten games sold, actually. Admittedly, at a value price now.
> Incidentally, I ran into Ron Millar about six months ago, at his new
> start-up. He was the senior designer for the first Diablo.
He also worked on Dark Reign, Starcraft, and both Warcrafts. He actually
sent me a letter once about UO, really excited about it, before it came
out. I have a wall here with "fan letters from developers"...
> I asked
> him a bit about why the design for multiplayer Diablo worked out the
> way that it did; he said that he was largely ignorant of what could
> be done at that time, but he had recently gotten into playing these
> cool text games called "muds" and in fact had downloaded a
> diku codebase
> and begun to fool with it...
We talked with Diablo folks shortly after Diablo came out. When the hype
for Diablo started to build, our marketing department kept asking us if
UO could be more like Dibalo. The Diablo team told us that throughout
their development, their marketers kept asking if it could be more like
UO...
> UO is only gaining popularity, it seems; and better yet, Origin gets
> to real in $10 a month per player, every month. Diablo only gets sold
> once.
However, UO is in a graphical market, and we'll have to worry about
client getting dated, etc. So there's a real question of how long the
game will be sustainable... we can't really go by the track record of
past games of this type.
> Question: could Origin have given away the UO client and still
> made money? I wager so.
Of course, I can't actually answer this. :)
> I know in my own case, I spent ~$30 on the
> game itself and then was a paying customer for nearly a year,
> amounting
> to $120. (Of course, I wasn't playing most of that time, I just
> kept forgetting to cancel it...)
I had no idea you played it at all, actually. :) I'm scared to ask what
you thought of it given how, er, rough it was for the first year (and
still is in many ways).
> Diablo: (1 million copies) X ($20 a pop back to Blizzard) > $20 million
> UO: (.5 million copies) X ($20 a pop back to Origin) +
> (60,000 players a month) X ($10 a month) X (12 months) > $17.2 million
>
> (If my numbers are way off the mark, let me know, I'm just guessing.
> I realize you're probably not allowed to "speculate" on such
> things, but
> if I'm dead wrong just say so.)
You're dead wrong. ;) Sales figures for UO and Diablo are both public,
so you can go find those out if you dig... also, you're counting gross,
of course, not net. UO's infrastructure is significantly more expensive
than Diablo's for obvious reasons...
-Raph - Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Matt Chatterley
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Adam J. Thornton
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- MCP/2.1 client-server message protocol... Andrew Wilson
- EC Habitats Beta Program URL... Andrew Wilson
- Autogenerated room descriptions T. Alexander Popiel
- Autogenerated room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Autogenerated room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Autogenerated room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Autogenerated room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD is opening for Beta on Oct 1! Ben Greear
- A little help Dale Hoffman
- A little help Robert Woods
- A little help Ling
- A little help Marc Bowden
- A little help Ling
- A little help Richard Woolcock
- A little help Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- A little help Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- A little help T. Alexander Popiel
- A little help chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- A little help Marc Bowden
- A little help Koster, Raph
- A little help Koster, Raph
- Mud adverts, was: ScryMUD is opening for Beta on Oct 1! Richard Woolcock
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) James Wilson
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- UO lawsuit (fwd) Adam Wiggins
- UO lawsuit (fwd) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Ben Greear
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Bruce Mitchener
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Marc Bowden
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Chris Gray
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Ben Greear
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. James Wilson
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Chris Gray