September 1998
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit pomales
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Brandon Cline
- Equipment Fit Matthew R. Sheahan
- Equipment Fit Chris Gray
- VT-100 and other terminal data J C Lawrence
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ben Greear
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Holly Sommer
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ross Nicoll
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? T. Alexander Popiel
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Marc Hernandez
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) quzah
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Jon A. Lambert
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Nathan F Yospe
- Wild idea.. :) Damion Schubert
- Wild idea.. :) Chris Gray
- Re:Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- ADMIN: Unsubscription J C Lawrence
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions T. Alexander Popiel
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions Adam Wiggins
- npc memory and reactions Richard Woolcock
- npc memory and reactions Ross Nicoll
- (fwd) CODE RELEASE: [server] SlashMUD (MacOS mud server) J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam Wiggins
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Travis S. Casey
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit, enlightenment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Adventure on the web J C Lawrence
- A Java front end to ECGS (finally) J C Lawrence
- PERL based MUDs J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem Koster, Raph
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Vadim Tkachenko
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Chris Gray
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Alex Stewart
- OT: Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Equipment fit revisited Andy Cink
- X, Y & Z. Scott Cade
- An accidental experiment with language Damion Schubert
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions Alex Oren
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- cellular automata as universe models Joel Kelso
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- [off-topic] news! Travis Casey
- [off-topic] news! J C Lawrence
- [off-topic] news! Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
- Introducing the background hook Ling
- Introducing the background hook J C Lawrence
- Introducing the background hook chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Introducing the background hook Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Introducing the background hook Matt Chatterley
- Off-topic! Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Lockless DB design (was Fw: lurker emerges) J C Lawrence
- PCCTS->ANTLR J C Lawrence
- MOSIX: Multi-computer Operating System for unIX J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Hal Black
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Matthew R. Sheahan
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Richard Woolcock
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jo Dillon
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Damion Schubert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marc Hernandez
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths T. Alexander Popiel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Chris Gray
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths S. Patrick Gallaty
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ryan Prince
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jon A. Lambert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Project: ROADS database of MUD-related papers? J C Lawrence
- Admin J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- AR's idea database Oliver Jowett
- AR's idea database James Wilson
- Forced story line... quzah [sotfhome]
- Forced story line... Marc Hernandez
- Forced story line... Damion Schubert
- ADMIN: Digests are now functioning J C Lawrence
- (had no title) quzah [sotfhome]
- (subject missing) Vladimir Prelovac
- (subject missing) J C Lawrence
- META: Web posting from list archives J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? S. Patrick Gallaty
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Adam J. Thornton
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Chris Gray
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Koster, Raph
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Joel Kelso
- META: What are you looking for in this list? ##Make Nylander
- META: What are you looking for in this list? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Felix A. Croes
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Jon A. Lambert
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Marian Griffith
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Matt Chatterley
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Alex Stewart
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: who are we? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? quzah [sotfhome]
- META: who are we? Richard Woolcock
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? James Wilson
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Petri Virkkula
- META: who are we? Scatter
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? Holly Sommer
- META: who are we? Marian Griffith
- META: who are we? Marc Hernandez
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: who are we? ApplePiMan@aol.com
- META: who are we? Alex Stewart
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Marc Hernandez
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jo Dillon
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Andy Cink
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? ##Make Nylander
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Richard Woolcock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Hal Black
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Raph & Kristen Koster
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Medievia Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon A. Lambert
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Marc Hernandez
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft T. Alexander Popiel
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon Leonard
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Oliver Jowett
- let's call it a spellcraft J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- spell design systems Travis Casey
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD Source release 1.6.0 Ben Greear
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking Travis Casey
- Spellchecking Koster, Raph
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we?/What are you looking for? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Legend's speech system and moods Koster, Raph
- Legend's speech system and moods Raph & Kristen Koster
- Legend's speech system and moods quzah [sotfhome]
- Putting names on things(Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev] META: What are you looking for in this list? Scatter
- Object transitions, was Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Vadim Tkachenko
- META: hat are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- What about minimal spanning trees? was: what do we want Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Summary of off-list META comments: J C Lawrence
- FYI: gamora Vadim Tkachenko
- FYI: gamora Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. T. Alexander Popiel
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Brandon J. Rickman
- Metroworks JIT for Linux J C Lawrence
- numbers - was spellcraft Orion Henry
- Zelda Online Orion Henry
- FPL: Another embeddable bytecoded scripting language J C Lawrence
- Game Design Issues (Was: let's call it a spel Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Matthew R. Sheahan
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon A. Lambert
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Kylotan
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam J. Thornton
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon Leonard
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Nathan F Yospe
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Travis Casey
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) J C Lawrence
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev] apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Marian Griffith
- Room descriptions Orion Henry
- Room descriptions Raph & Kristen Koster
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions #Make Nylander
- Room descriptions quzah [sotfhome]
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > From: Adam Wiggins [mailto:adam@angel.com]
> > Which, of course, leaves you with two primary options: one, to try to
> > not innovate too terribly much, and instead just do it "the old way",
> > except do it
> > really really well, and maybe put some twists on it that no
> > one has ever seen before. Legend falls into this category, as (I'd
> guess)
> > most of our favorite muds (Arctic, of course, is mine, and most
> > definitely qualifies
> > in this category).
>
> Hmm, I really wonder whether an awareness of the "old way" as a "way"
> was really present, if you know what I mean. Meaning, how many decided
> to view the split between simulationist and storytelling as an aesthetic
> choice, and how many actually just made the hodgepodge because it was
> all they knew?
Good point. At least in the case of Arctic, they started up shortly
after the diku codebase was released, and many of the things they did
then were semi-revolutionary (heavy emphasis on skills, spells learned
from spellbooks found about the world rather than in the guild,
free pk/psteal with a justice system) but now are considered fairly
standard. I doubt they weighed the different approaches they could
take: they started with a certain codebase, and tried to make the
best mud they could. In time many of the originally very scripted elements
became more simulationist; many objects in rooms that were originally just
extra descs became real objects that could be manipulated in a more
consistent manner.
I would say that one of the best things mud dev has done is made
potential new admins analyze the existing art a little more carefully,
and maybe realize that they *do* have a choice as to how they are
going to approach it.
Then again, maybe not. It's a nice thought, though.
> > Ultima Online is
> > another, and has
> > experience wild success the likes of which the world has never seen
> > before.
>
> Hurm... how successful was Gemstone III in its heyday? I don't actually
> know the numbers, but I bet that it made a ton of money, because of the
> amazingly high fees. So it'd depend on how you defined success, I guess.
True. In this case I'm not referring to monetary success, but rather
impact on the gaming population as a whole. Perhaps it's not fair to
Gemstone that the (potential) online gaming population is now much larger
to due availibility of both computers and cheap internet connections, but
there you go.
I'd say that no online game has ever had the immense impact upon both
the online gaming community and the gaming community in general (ie,
people that wouldn't normally play multiplayer, mud-like games) as UO.
This is how I am defining success.
> > A tangential question this raises: Raph, how much of UO's
> > success would you attribute to cutting edge game technology,
>
> That being?
What we're talking about, a simulationist engine. :)
> Graphics? The fact of graphics in itself was not new.
> The display engine? Bitmapped 640x480 16 bit color was nifty when we
> started, but was just up to par when we shipped, and is now dated.
Indeed. I would refer to the art as "functional" (it works well and
there's a ton of it), but not really pretty. Ultima 8 probably was
more aethetically pleasing.
> The capacity of the servers? New, but not earth-shatteringly so, and not
> done so well as to blow the world away.
Well, certainly it's impressive enough, but that's still not what I was
referring to. Since we were discussing the pros and cons of a simulationist
versus a (traditional) scripted quest/"storytelling" game, that's what
I meant by "technology." Sorry, I should have been clearer.
> > and how much to just having a ton of marketing
>
> UO actually had very little marketing, in that we ran a few ads (I think
> there were five) prior to release, and had no online ads. We had a
Bah, I remember your post to the Legend message board asking for beta testers,
you think that didn't get people excited? :)
> website two and a half years in advance of release, of course. The
> magazine coverage we got was just about all initiated by the press
> themselves, rather than by our aggressively pursuing it.
Whether it was internal or external marketing, it still boils down to the
same thing for the purpose of my question. Simply by coming from Origin
rather than (say) KosterSoft, Inc. generated quite a bit of buzz.
Only 5 ads, really? I could have sworn I saw both that one with the
picture of the back of some woman's neck and the one with the Tim Hildebrant
painting on the back of at least a couple game magazines for many months
running. I call that a fair amount of marketing, especially since the ads
were well done (in contrast to the ads for games like Kesmai and MPath,
which have usually looked pretty amatuerish).
> > and one of the most popular single-player RPGs whose
> > shoulders you could ride on?
>
> That's a honking huge advantage, unquestionably. It resulted in a LOT of
> press interest, for example. Press that Meridian 59 never got, and that
> The Realm never got, and that Lyra's Underlight or Lords of Empyria
> still haven't gotten.
>
> I think, though, that what caught the initial fan base's attention was a
> combination of the name, and the approach to the design: basically, a
> simulationist world. People thought the idea of living in a virtual
> world that they knew well from past games was very appealing. Early fan
> writings and websites are full of "oh wow, you'll be able to do THIS in
> it!"--the "this" being stuff that generally muds don't support, like
> being pirates or running shops or whatever.
In other words, you DO think the simulation element had a big effect on
the size of the playerbase and the game press' interest in it.
> > If you did the same (or similar) game but
> > not Ultima and minus Origin's marketing, would it have done
> > as well, or nearly as well?
>
> Minus marketing, nothing does well. :)
True, but you know what I mean - KosterSoft, Inc releasing their
simulationist, multiplayer game The Legend of Legend! With 16-bit,
scrolling graphics! Be a fisherman, a tailor, or an alchemist! etc.
> Minus a brandname, everything
> does less well. It's very very rare that a new brand is established in
> the games market and becomes a major hit. The industry right now is
> seeing the vast majority of titles fail to make money. I think the
> common phrase is that 90% of the money is made by 10% of the titles. The
> ones that do tend to make it big usually have a strong franchise behind
> them (read: sequels) and a major publisher behind them with lots of
> marketing money.
Very true. A similar effect is happening elsewhere, as well: movie studios,
record companies, and other entertainment publishers want to put all their
money behind sure-fire successes and bump off the less likely candidates.
People are only going to see X number of movies or buy X CDs or play X
computer games during a given timeperiod, and they'll tend to choose the
"best" (== most hyped up) ones. So it's much more worthwhile for a publisher
to put serious money behind a big contender and make sure they are on
everyone's must-have/must-see list rather than invest in a bunch of small
ones that will probably all get overlooked.
The statistic I heard is that 300 new computer games get released every month.
Of those, the average software store stocks the "top" (as rated by magazines
and other market tests) 50 or so. At the end of the month they clear most of
those out to make room for the next 50.
It's a very, very tough market right now. Multiplayer games are in a
slightly different category, of course, but still not completely immune
to these effects.
> > If they had done Ultima Online as a standard, scripted
> > Ultima game with multiplayer capability and a burly central
> > server, would *that* have done as well? Would it have done better?
>
> Good question--there you are asking if UO done as a storytelling instead
> of a simulationist game would have done better. Who knows? Nobody's done
> a storytelling game at that scale and with that sort of presentation
> yet. Everquest is about to try it, though they are lacking the brand.
> Meridian was also lacking the brand, and its presentation wasn't quite
> there. Also, at the time that it came out, Diablo had just made it to
> market and was doing phenomenally doing basically what you describe...
True, but Diablo wasn't an ongoing world (with, I might add, an ongoing
pay-to-play), so it missed its chance.
But this raises another good question: could Blizzard have turned
Diablo into a game with the scope and long-term playability as UO,
and still be going just as strong today? Or would people have gotten
bored of the same-sameness, and this is the reason why UO's approach
was "better" in the long run?
Likely somewhere inbetween. An interesting question to ponder, however.
Incidentally, I ran into Ron Millar about six months ago, at his new
start-up. He was the senior designer for the first Diablo. I asked
him a bit about why the design for multiplayer Diablo worked out the
way that it did; he said that he was largely ignorant of what could
be done at that time, but he had recently gotten into playing these
cool text games called "muds" and in fact had downloaded a diku codebase
and begun to fool with it...
I sent him an invite to mud-dev but unfortunately he begged off due to
lack of time.
> For that matter, UO done the way it WAS done could easily have done
> better in the market than it did, if we'd just taken slightly different
> approaches to things. Such is hindsight. All told, though, it went #1 PC
> software in Japan (not #1 game) and looks to do it again, top ten game
> in the States (top 40 for the year), was the fastest selling product in
> EA history, is now in the top three bestselling Ultimas ever, and blah
> blah blah. Secondguessing seems a bit like looking a gift horse in the
> mouth. :)
Nod. More than that though - it's longevity. Normal computer games are
dead and off the shelf in a few months, or a year or two at best if they
are extremely successful (again, reference Diablo). Regardless they
are generally close-ended enough that people will get bored and move onto
the sequel or the clones. (Witness Quake...)
UO is only gaining popularity, it seems; and better yet, Origin gets
to real in $10 a month per player, every month. Diablo only gets sold
once.
Question: could Origin have given away the UO client and still
made money? I wager so. I know in my own case, I spent ~$30 on the
game itself and then was a paying customer for nearly a year, amounting
to $120. (Of course, I wasn't playing most of that time, I just
kept forgetting to cancel it...)
> Doing it as a storyteller environment, and coming out six to
> nine months earlier, maybe it would have traded places with Diablo
> (which makes the above accomplishments look puny).
I disagree with the last part. Certainly I think UO has made a bigger
impact on the gaming community as a whole, but if you want to use the
simplest judge, money made, I see it like this:
Diablo: (1 million copies) X ($20 a pop back to Blizzard) = $20 million
UO: (.5 million copies) X ($20 a pop back to Origin) +
(60,000 players a month) X ($10 a month) X (12 months) = $17.2 million
(If my numbers are way off the mark, let me know, I'm just guessing.
I realize you're probably not allowed to "speculate" on such things, but
if I'm dead wrong just say so.)
And consider that UO is going to continue making that money, while Diablo
is mostly through. I don't think that looks "puny" at all.
Or were you refering to something else?
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