September 1998
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit pomales
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Brandon Cline
- Equipment Fit Matthew R. Sheahan
- Equipment Fit Chris Gray
- VT-100 and other terminal data J C Lawrence
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ben Greear
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Holly Sommer
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ross Nicoll
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? T. Alexander Popiel
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Marc Hernandez
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) quzah
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Jon A. Lambert
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Nathan F Yospe
- Wild idea.. :) Damion Schubert
- Wild idea.. :) Chris Gray
- Re:Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- ADMIN: Unsubscription J C Lawrence
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions T. Alexander Popiel
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions Adam Wiggins
- npc memory and reactions Richard Woolcock
- npc memory and reactions Ross Nicoll
- (fwd) CODE RELEASE: [server] SlashMUD (MacOS mud server) J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam Wiggins
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Travis S. Casey
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit, enlightenment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Adventure on the web J C Lawrence
- A Java front end to ECGS (finally) J C Lawrence
- PERL based MUDs J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem Koster, Raph
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Vadim Tkachenko
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Chris Gray
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Alex Stewart
- OT: Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Equipment fit revisited Andy Cink
- X, Y & Z. Scott Cade
- An accidental experiment with language Damion Schubert
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions Alex Oren
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- cellular automata as universe models Joel Kelso
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- [off-topic] news! Travis Casey
- [off-topic] news! J C Lawrence
- [off-topic] news! Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
- Introducing the background hook Ling
- Introducing the background hook J C Lawrence
- Introducing the background hook chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Introducing the background hook Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Introducing the background hook Matt Chatterley
- Off-topic! Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Lockless DB design (was Fw: lurker emerges) J C Lawrence
- PCCTS->ANTLR J C Lawrence
- MOSIX: Multi-computer Operating System for unIX J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Hal Black
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Matthew R. Sheahan
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Richard Woolcock
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jo Dillon
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Damion Schubert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marc Hernandez
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths T. Alexander Popiel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Chris Gray
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths S. Patrick Gallaty
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ryan Prince
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jon A. Lambert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Project: ROADS database of MUD-related papers? J C Lawrence
- Admin J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- AR's idea database Oliver Jowett
- AR's idea database James Wilson
- Forced story line... quzah [sotfhome]
- Forced story line... Marc Hernandez
- Forced story line... Damion Schubert
- ADMIN: Digests are now functioning J C Lawrence
- (had no title) quzah [sotfhome]
- (subject missing) Vladimir Prelovac
- (subject missing) J C Lawrence
- META: Web posting from list archives J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? S. Patrick Gallaty
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Adam J. Thornton
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Chris Gray
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Koster, Raph
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Joel Kelso
- META: What are you looking for in this list? ##Make Nylander
- META: What are you looking for in this list? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Felix A. Croes
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Jon A. Lambert
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Marian Griffith
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Matt Chatterley
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Alex Stewart
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: who are we? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? quzah [sotfhome]
- META: who are we? Richard Woolcock
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? James Wilson
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Petri Virkkula
- META: who are we? Scatter
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? Holly Sommer
- META: who are we? Marian Griffith
- META: who are we? Marc Hernandez
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: who are we? ApplePiMan@aol.com
- META: who are we? Alex Stewart
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Marc Hernandez
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jo Dillon
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Andy Cink
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? ##Make Nylander
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Richard Woolcock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Hal Black
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Raph & Kristen Koster
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Medievia Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon A. Lambert
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Marc Hernandez
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft T. Alexander Popiel
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon Leonard
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Oliver Jowett
- let's call it a spellcraft J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- spell design systems Travis Casey
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD Source release 1.6.0 Ben Greear
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking Travis Casey
- Spellchecking Koster, Raph
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we?/What are you looking for? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Legend's speech system and moods Koster, Raph
- Legend's speech system and moods Raph & Kristen Koster
- Legend's speech system and moods quzah [sotfhome]
- Putting names on things(Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev] META: What are you looking for in this list? Scatter
- Object transitions, was Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Vadim Tkachenko
- META: hat are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- What about minimal spanning trees? was: what do we want Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Summary of off-list META comments: J C Lawrence
- FYI: gamora Vadim Tkachenko
- FYI: gamora Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. T. Alexander Popiel
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Brandon J. Rickman
- Metroworks JIT for Linux J C Lawrence
- numbers - was spellcraft Orion Henry
- Zelda Online Orion Henry
- FPL: Another embeddable bytecoded scripting language J C Lawrence
- Game Design Issues (Was: let's call it a spel Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Matthew R. Sheahan
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon A. Lambert
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Kylotan
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam J. Thornton
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon Leonard
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Nathan F Yospe
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Travis Casey
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) J C Lawrence
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev] apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Marian Griffith
- Room descriptions Orion Henry
- Room descriptions Raph & Kristen Koster
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions #Make Nylander
- Room descriptions quzah [sotfhome]
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Wiggins [mailto:adam@angel.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 6:35 PM
> To: 'mud-dev@kanga.nu'
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions
>
>
> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > > From: Adam Wiggins [mailto:adam@angel.com]
> > > On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > > > I would
> > > > not call the goal of having a fully interactive environment even
> > > > necessarily contradictory to what I am discussing. You can
> > > > have a fully
> > > > interactive environment that still imposes a perspective or
> > > > a worldview
> > > > on the player, I would think.
> > >
> > > On this particular point I don't think I can agree. In
> the end, if
> > > someone detonates a nuclear bomb inside your candy store it's
> > > still going to have the same roomdesc. I don't think
> this sort of
> > > constructed world
> > > will ever be interactive in the way that I'm thinking; it
> will always
> > > be a sophisticated Zork spinoff, which is to say you only have the
> > > interactions which are coded by whoever created the area.
> >
> > Yes, well, this is the case for all the interactive world
> interactions
> > you might have, too.
>
> I don't agree, precisely, and I'm surprised you would say
> this, considering
> your work on Ultima Online.
Maybe I learned something about exactly how much it takes to get to
where you're going. ;) Seriously, though, what we learned with UO was
that you can provide a billion little interactions, and you're still not
gonna get to that full simulationist world--and that once you get there,
it may not be fun.
> If I write a very specific area, typical of most muds, where there are
> highly specialized room descriptions and most of the interactions are
> coded to be specific to that area, any functionality you don't cover
> will not work in your area.
Correct. I am not saying this is a good idea. :)
> If we build the candy store via typical
> methods - writing room descs, adding extra descs, adding little spec
> procs to handle different things the player might do - it can't deal
> with something not coded, including extreme effects like the atom
> bomb, but also effects like someone rearranging the furniture, or
> killing the candy store owner and taking his clothes and masquerading
> as him, or painting all the walls black and installing a
> movie projector
> and turning it into a movie hall, or even something simple
> like dropping
> a rotting carcass into the center of the floor (which would certainly
> draw attention away from all the normal decorations).
All the examples above except the painted walls and movie projector are
possible in UO; nonetheless, it's gonna feel like a static environment
anyway. The question is how many levels of sim are you gonna toss in to
make it feel worthwhile.
> If, however, the candy store is built the way Orion suggests
> - by actually
> creating each piece of furniture, all the candy stocks, the
> guy behind the
> counter, a full uniform for him, big window panes, and a
> shiny tile floor,
> all the interactions the game supports are automatically
> enabled for that
> room. You can now drop an atom bomb in it, or kick over the
> tables, or
> track mud all over the floor, or turn the room into an animal
> shelter, and
> the room description will never not make sense.
You can only drop an atom bomb in it if you have the behavior coded for
atom bombs across the board. (And yes, there are many good ways to do
this so that it requires only a single databse entry and some simple
code--I am not saying that it's difficult to do). Do you support mud
tracking in your mud? How do you handle mud (on the floor) erosion over
time? How do floors get cleaned? Does the mud (on the floor) serve any
purpose?
"all the interactions the game supports" is my point...
One of the lessons we learned with UO (which supports a LOT of
interactivity, with *billions* of discrete objects with individual
functionality, individually tracked statistics, etc) is that it's still
not enough to make it feel interactive. You might have mud tracking but
not wood polish; you might be able to burn a painting but not slash it,
or throw turpentine on it...
> One way you get the ultimate in flexiblity and freedom to
> create a specific
> feeling and environment, at the expense of difficult to add or change
> interactivity.
Correct.
> In the other case you loose the builder flexbility and
> probably a lot of mood, but you get the ultimate in dyanmicly
> built worlds,
> which can truly be torn down to nothing and then built up
> again if there
> are players willing to do it. I'm not suggesting that one is better,
> just attempting to point out the differences...
Players will be willing to tear it down, certainly. Build it up, I don't
know. ;) You tend to get more people who have fun by destroying than
those who have fun by building. :(
> > If you leave out atom bombs from your code, after
> > all, there's no way one is going to be detonated in the
> candy store. :)
>
> Sure, this is the old "Doc, it hurts when I do this"/"Well
> don't do that!"
> fixit.
I wasn't suggesting it as a fix for the problem; I was saying that this
is what WILL happen to any simulationist enterprise. How to state this
clearly?
The Simulationist's Dilemma: "One simulates a world to provide greater
interactivity and submersion in the fictional environment. But
simulating a world can never reach the level of detail that reality can.
And the more realistic the simulated environment, the more jarring a
break in the fiction is. Therefore, the further you go into realism, the
faster and harder you will fall out of immersion."
This is not to say that the simulationist's enterprise is doomed; it's
just that I don't know that it generally achieves what you want even in
the designs being discussed. Maybe someday someone will actually do it
well enough. :) A noble goal, to be sure. A fundamental question is
whether many of those physical interactions are even desirable in the
environment. It's very easy to code destruction, and it is easy to do.
You can assume that most players will therefore engage in it once
supplied. And building will have the following problems:
- a strict realism means that builders will be bale to make highly
disjointed environments that may subtract from the sense of realism
(look ma, I can perch a chair on the chimney!)
- it's a lot harder to code the ability to create objects in the world
using a sim model than it is to code destroying things
- you've got fewer people willing to build than you've got willing to
destroy, and those people will not take kindly to people burning the
chair on their chimney
> It certainly is a handy excuse, but it hardly
> represents good design,
> and in the end will lead to a very inflexible and proprietary
> functionality.
> This may or may not be a Bad Thing.
Right--the issues I wanted to raise were ones of how directed the
players are, and how much choice and freedom they have.
> > Similarly, if you don't have "burned" long descs for all the various
> > objects in your database, then once the fire is over, you
> may not have
> > achieved the effect you want. We're always stuck with "only the
> > interactions which are coded" after all...
>
> Yes - but assuming that you build the room out of standard components
> (wooden furniture, latex paint, plaster walls, glass windows)
> then this should already exist.
Should, but probably won't. :)
> Again, it's just a question of whether you want to spend a lot of time
> building/coding many interactive, reusable pieces and then
> building a world
> out of those, or whether you want to spend your time making
> hand-crafted
> areas and objects which are highly proprietary.
The irony is: you'll still need hand-crafted things, and you'll also
never get quite enough reusable pieces to get what you want out of the
world.
Or rather, you might, but it'll take you a REALLY long time.
-Raph
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