September 1998
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Encryption of protocols, compression and lag... Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Holly Sommer
- Equipment Fit pomales
- Equipment Fit Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Equipment Fit Brandon Cline
- Equipment Fit Matthew R. Sheahan
- Equipment Fit Chris Gray
- VT-100 and other terminal data J C Lawrence
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ben Greear
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Holly Sommer
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Ross Nicoll
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? T. Alexander Popiel
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Intermud Communication...is it worth it? chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Marc Hernandez
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) Adam J. Thornton
- Wild idea.. :) Ben Greear
- Wild idea.. :) quzah
- Wild idea.. :) Adam Wiggins
- Wild idea.. :) Jon A. Lambert
- Wild idea.. :) Vadim Tkachenko
- Wild idea.. :) Nathan F Yospe
- Wild idea.. :) Damion Schubert
- Wild idea.. :) Chris Gray
- Re:Intermud Communication...is it worth it? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- ADMIN: Unsubscription J C Lawrence
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions James Wilson
- npc memory and reactions T. Alexander Popiel
- npc memory and reactions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- npc memory and reactions Adam Wiggins
- npc memory and reactions Richard Woolcock
- npc memory and reactions Ross Nicoll
- (fwd) CODE RELEASE: [server] SlashMUD (MacOS mud server) J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ben Greear
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? T. Alexander Popiel
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam Wiggins
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Travis S. Casey
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Richard Woolcock
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? J C Lawrence
- [CODE QUESTION] How to encode floats into bytes? Adam J. Thornton
- Equipment Fit, enlightenment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Adventure on the web J C Lawrence
- A Java front end to ECGS (finally) J C Lawrence
- PERL based MUDs J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem J C Lawrence
- Economics: Arrow's Impossibility Theorem Koster, Raph
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Vadim Tkachenko
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Chris Gray
- Windows->Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Alex Stewart
- OT: Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Equipment fit revisited Andy Cink
- X, Y & Z. Scott Cade
- An accidental experiment with language Damion Schubert
- Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions Alex Oren
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- cellular automata as universe models Joel Kelso
- cellular automata as universe models James Wilson
- [off-topic] news! Travis Casey
- [off-topic] news! J C Lawrence
- [off-topic] news! Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
- Introducing the background hook Ling
- Introducing the background hook J C Lawrence
- Introducing the background hook chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Introducing the background hook Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Introducing the background hook Matt Chatterley
- Off-topic! Off-topic! Windows-> Linux TCP/IP stack performance problems Adam Wiggins
- Lockless DB design (was Fw: lurker emerges) J C Lawrence
- PCCTS->ANTLR J C Lawrence
- MOSIX: Multi-computer Operating System for unIX J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Hal Black
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths James Wilson
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Matthew R. Sheahan
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Richard Woolcock
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jo Dillon
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Damion Schubert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marc Hernandez
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths T. Alexander Popiel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths J C Lawrence
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Chris Gray
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths S. Patrick Gallaty
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Adam Wiggins
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Ryan Prince
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Jon A. Lambert
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Marian Griffith
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths quzah [sotfhome]
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Marian's Tailor vs. Psychopaths Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Project: ROADS database of MUD-related papers? J C Lawrence
- Admin J C Lawrence
- Admin: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- AR's idea database Oliver Jowett
- AR's idea database James Wilson
- Forced story line... quzah [sotfhome]
- Forced story line... Marc Hernandez
- Forced story line... Damion Schubert
- ADMIN: Digests are now functioning J C Lawrence
- (had no title) quzah [sotfhome]
- (subject missing) Vladimir Prelovac
- (subject missing) J C Lawrence
- META: Web posting from list archives J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? S. Patrick Gallaty
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Adam J. Thornton
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Chris Gray
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Koster, Raph
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? James Wilson
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Hal Black
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Joel Kelso
- META: What are you looking for in this list? ##Make Nylander
- META: What are you looking for in this list? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Felix A. Croes
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Jon A. Lambert
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Marian Griffith
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Matt Chatterley
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: What are you looking for in this list? Alex Stewart
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: who are we? T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we? Koster, Raph
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? quzah [sotfhome]
- META: who are we? Richard Woolcock
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? James Wilson
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Petri Virkkula
- META: who are we? Scatter
- META: who are we? J C Lawrence
- META: who are we? Holly Sommer
- META: who are we? Marian Griffith
- META: who are we? Marc Hernandez
- META: who are we? Matt Chatterley
- META: who are we? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: who are we? ApplePiMan@aol.com
- META: who are we? Alex Stewart
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Marc Hernandez
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jo Dillon
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Ryan Prince
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Andy Cink
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? ##Make Nylander
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Richard Woolcock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Hal Black
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Raph & Kristen Koster
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Damion Schubert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon A. Lambert
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? J C Lawrence
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Koster, Raph
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Kylotan
- Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Jon Leonard
- Medievia Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon A. Lambert
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Marc Hernandez
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft T. Alexander Popiel
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Jon Leonard
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Brandon J. Rickman
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Niklas Elmqvist
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Oliver Jowett
- let's call it a spellcraft J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam Wiggins
- let's call it a spellcraft S. Patrick Gallaty
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft quzah [sotfhome]
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- spell design systems Travis Casey
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD Source release 1.6.0 Ben Greear
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking Travis Casey
- Spellchecking Koster, Raph
- Spellchecking Richard Woolcock
- Spellchecking T. Alexander Popiel
- META: who are we?/What are you looking for? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Legend's speech system and moods Koster, Raph
- Legend's speech system and moods Raph & Kristen Koster
- Legend's speech system and moods quzah [sotfhome]
- Putting names on things(Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- let's call it a spellcraft Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev] META: What are you looking for in this list? Scatter
- Object transitions, was Ugh, IS Diablo a mud? Vadim Tkachenko
- META: hat are you looking for in this list? J C Lawrence
- What about minimal spanning trees? was: what do we want Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Summary of off-list META comments: J C Lawrence
- FYI: gamora Vadim Tkachenko
- FYI: gamora Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. T. Alexander Popiel
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Adam J. Thornton
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Jon A. Lambert
- Let's talk about numbers. Brandon J. Rickman
- Metroworks JIT for Linux J C Lawrence
- numbers - was spellcraft Orion Henry
- Zelda Online Orion Henry
- FPL: Another embeddable bytecoded scripting language J C Lawrence
- Game Design Issues (Was: let's call it a spel Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- let's call it a spellcraft Andy Cink
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Adam J. Thornton
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft James Wilson
- let's call it a spellcraft Matthew R. Sheahan
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- let's call it a spellcraft Travis Casey
- let's call it a spellcraft Vadim Tkachenko
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon A. Lambert
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Kylotan
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam Wiggins
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Adam J. Thornton
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Jon Leonard
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Nathan F Yospe
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Travis Casey
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) J C Lawrence
- After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev] apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Marian Griffith
- Room descriptions Orion Henry
- Room descriptions Raph & Kristen Koster
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Hal Black
On Sun, Sep 27, 1998 at 03:37:45AM -0400, apocalypse@pipeline.com wrote:
>
> ALL quotes following are From: Hal Black :
>
> >Thus, the main objection is probably to the fact that most descriptions are
> >viewer-independent, and therefore really not a true perception.
>
> And why shouldnt they be? What should a room say?
> what the viewer wants it to say? what the observer
> wants it to be within his perception? I'd have
> to say no on all counts. The room itself is independent
> of the viewer, its not part of his anatomy, but now
> walking into the room he has to do that complex task
> every living thing does all the time. Cogitate, infer,
> and search.
Maybe I'm missing something, but you seem to be arguing at cross-ends here.
You say first that the room itself is independent of the viewer, not part
of his anatomy, but you then say that divorcing feelings and sensations
generated by the entity's anatomy from the room is bad.
> How is being "viewer dependent" any truer a perception
> than what we alread have? Your just forcing the viewer
> to see a different perception..Who are we to say what
> they see? they're all different, they're all the same,
> they're seeing it without my knowledge, and without
> my knowing whats inside their head. So, how is saying,
> a stodgy old vampire takes no notice of the sun, or a
> baby must put the gum in his mouth (maybe he already did
> and dosent like used gum), or the business woman
An infant will put anything it can get a hold of into its mouth. Try it
sometime. And remember, we can have that child's whole history if we want.
If the child has tasted gum before, the game engine can know.
> cares about her shoes...maybe shes rich, and LIKES having
> an excuse to buy more shoes, how is ANY of that any
> more a "true" perception than the room descriptions
Well, if she is rich and likes to have an excuse to buy more shoes, the
fault in the description would be that it not specific enough to her,
more context-placing needs to be done.
> in say Raph's post???? How do we know? We don't,
> and I would say that to get a "true" perception of
> the room, we let them percieve it, within the guidelines
> we establish, for the story-line we are advancing,
> to the ends we wish. Theyve come to us to be told a
> story, to be put into another "reality", to play within
> our universes. Lets let them do the work they want to do,
> imagining.
It is more "true" because hopefully we can reduce a lot of the absolutely
false things that are portrayed and trigger emotions and imagination.
(more on this in a bit)
> >"Glorious sunbeams pierce the fluffy cumulus clouds here and bring joy\n\
> >to your heart as they caress your face.\n"
> > }
> >
> >Obviously this is not viewer-sensitive as has been pointed out earlier.
>
> Again, it, by pure force of what it is, must be
> independent of the viewer. And in so doing, has the power
> to make the viewer act in a huge array of ways. From
> a few lines of text, you have just caused that bored
> vampire (maybe...just maybe) to reflect, to pause, and
> maybe if he read it, and the room is designed to do so
> he may interact, maybe that sunlight episode, causes
> him to search out the means to aid himself...Maybe
> it causes him to search for a cure, to attain the power
> to be IN the light again. And in purely game terms, it
> adds depth to those that perceive its meaning, AND
> in so doing maybe some cynical players complain, and
> the ones who see what its trying to do, explain it,
> thereby increasing the enjoyment and immersion for all.
On my mud, if that was a static room description, here is what would happen.
> exit cave
[first comes the room description]
Glorious sunbeams pierce the fluffy cumulus clouds here and bring joy
to your heart as they caress your face.
[player thinks, what the @#$@? I am a vampire, is this some kind of
joke? Goodbye immersion.]
[now the player gets some information about what is happening to his
body]
You yell a harrowing scream, a scream more profound than any mortal man
can know as the flesh melts from your body like the paraffin of a statue
from a wax museum in a kiln.
And to answer your question, who are we to say what a given person feels
when they are in a given locale? We are the gamemasters. If you design a
race of creatures, take a fictitious race that I will make up that are like
drow elves, for instance. Much like cave-dwelling salamanders and fish,
this race has somehow evolved to not have pigmentation or protection from
the sun. This race will therefore have evolved to hate the sun. Because
perhaps in the world I've created, being blind, crippled and burned by the
sun makes one sterile at best. So, anyone of this race without an
instinctive fear of the sun will die. Thus, by natural selection, 99% of
this race will have a fear of the sun.
And because we are trying to place this person in a role, we as gamemasters
should not tell them to feel something that is out of character with something
they DO feel. This race will not be caressed by the sun, they will be burned
by it.
As another example, take someone playing some kind of magma-dwelling
creature. Certainly they will have different feelings and reactions to a
swimming pool compared to a human. They will likewise have different
reactions to the lava pit.
>
> >It is much like those point-of-view narratives they used you make you write in
> >grammar school. Write about your room from your point of view, your mom's
> >point of view, your cat's point of view, and a roach's point of view. The
> >challenge is to write room descriptions the same way.
>
> Id argue those assignments were meant to look outside yourself,
> and in so doing to "see" yourself. A very true wisdom is the
> fact that its hardest to see yourself. By trying to
> see outside yourself, you see what you miss everyday. And
> again, this is exactly what that great sunlight-vampire
> example does, its perfect.
I agree that given the context of Legends, playing the role of a young boy,
if just for a minute, can give a vampire great insight. Maybe this happens
in a dream, the vampire dreaming when he was a young boy. Great, fabulous.
But NOW, he is CHANGED. For a vampire to see the sun and find pleasure
in it is a very big assumption that will not fill all cases. For a vampire
wishing death, yes. For a vampire trapped in a well as in the movie
"Interview with the Vampire" (I can't remember what happens in the book
exactly, but that scene in the movie was very vivid for me), not by choice,
would invoke quite a different reaction. That's why I think we should
just provide hints when we can, and leave the imagination to the player.
Nothing is more frustrating for me as a player to be told that I'm feeling
something that I'm not.
> >One of the things that I have planned for my mud is to do some observer-
> >specific rendering of sensations. Certainly everyone doesn't see things the
> >same way, or even notice the same things. This may even extend to context.
>
> The first part is interesting, and merits exploration. The
> second part however, is a self-proof of why a room
> description must be not conforming to EVERY
> viewpoint. If sam and mark walk into the room, and sam
> sees one room, and mark sees an entirely different room,
> in the SAME room...How can that be possible..Your doing
> what you didnt want to do, your forcing mark to NOT
> see what sam sees, however minutely or broadly...Who is to say
> mark DOSENT see what sam sees and vice-versa?
If Sam and Mark are twins, certainly they will see almost exactly the same
things. However, if Sam is blind and Mark can't smell, they will certainly
need different descriptions of the perfume shop if you really want to put the
player in the role they are playing.
> If you leave the room description alone, and write
> it cleverly enough once, it will evoke the myriad
> of responses and reactions your looking for.
> I cant even begin to think of a description that
> wouldnt work for everyone. The room description
> is a magical thing in my eyes. It has so much power
> in so little space. Try this one...
> "The room is clogged with a greasy, black, oily smoke on which
> you cough."
What if I'm in a spacesuit in this room. I have my own, pure air supply. For
me to read this sentence would mean that my suit has been compromised. Maybe
it has, and then I would certainly cough. But not by default. Imagine the
frustration of a player in a spacesuit who came into this room, found himself
coughing, and took the suit for repair. They find nothing wrong with it, so
he comes back. Same problem. Soon they have an entire scientific team show
up to debug the suit in the field. Etc, etc.
I would prefer something like this:
Mark not wearing any protection.
> go west
[first he sees the room description]
This room is clogged with a greasy, black, oily smoke.
[he takes his first breath in the room]
As you inhale, your lungs burn and you start to cough.
Sam in his spacesuit.
> go west
[first he sees the room description]
This room is clogged with a greasy, black, oily smoke.
[he takes his first breath in the room]
You inhale the clean air from your spacesuit.
[or maybe there is no message at all??]
Sam in a leaky spacesuit.
> go west
[first he sees the room description]
This room is clogged with a greasy, black, oily smoke.
[he takes his first breath in the room]
As you inhale, your lungs burn and you start to cough.
[Sam thinks, hey, there is a leak in my spacesuit.]
> >For example, a cannister labeled "Bio-hazard" will certainly attract more
> >notice in a day care building than in a pharmaceutical factory, where there
> >may be hundreds of such cannisters.
>
> Oh thats backwards...A pharmaceutical facility, like shipping companies
> like chemical companies do daily drills on how to clean up
> and prevent toxic problems. They live, and breathe to not mess up.
> They notice every canister, its position, its condition, etc..
> (This I know from first hand-experience working at a plant
> where "back-planes" for all kinds of computer devices were made).
> I was doing network design, and I was reminded daily of hazardous
> areas/items/procedures, and i was nowhere near the toxic stuff that
> they lay down over the "copper tracks" on the boards.
> And a daycare center? why would they take more notice?
> Would they know what the symbols meant? it could be a tank
> of helium for all they know, they have NO idea what it is,
> means or does, it has no relevance to them. They leave it
> there, until someone freaks and says "OH GOD!! get it out!!
> its toxic!!"..
You are in a pharmaceutical facility. There is a day care facility there for
the children of the employees. There is also the research lab, where the deal
with a lot of hazardous material.
It would seem to me that it would be more remarkable to find a bio-hazard
waste cannister in the nursery than in the research lab, where things are
daily parts of the job.
This is almost on another topic though - what the user sees when he walks
into a room that he's been many times before.
For instance, in my real-life apartment, I have a pretty cool table. The
first 10 times I walked in and saw it, the only thing I saw in that room
was the table. I'd think, damn, I love that table. Then I bought an
entertainment center that is too big for my tiny apartment. Now, I walk into
my apartment and the only thing on my mind is "that entertainment center is
too big in there." I don't see my cool table anymore, unless I am sitting on
the couch looking at it... Then I think... "that's a cool table."
> MY OPINION : Why do we have to spoon feed them a "stack of boxes?"
> as an independent room item, thats part of the problem already,
> most players lack imagination, thats why they're bored. They're
> getting spoon fed too much info, or in the case of a "bad"
> description, too little. Games in general appeal more to us at
> a younger age, and the ones that force us to imagine,
> within a set of defined inputs, (for me at least)
> were the best.
I think situations should be descriptive as possible... But where appropriate.
Otherwise, as a player trying to play a role, I just feel angry when I am
forcefully removed from my role by the engine telling me to feel a certain way
when I wouldn't, or when someone starts talking about the home-run race in
a medieval game. - Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions apocalypse@pipeline.com
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Hal Black
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions #Make Nylander
- Room descriptions quzah [sotfhome]
- Room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Travis S. Casey
- Room descriptions ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Matt Chatterley
- Room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Room descriptions Travis Casey
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Adam J. Thornton
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Chris Gray
- Room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Room descriptions Adam Wiggins
- MCP/2.1 client-server message protocol... Andrew Wilson
- EC Habitats Beta Program URL... Andrew Wilson
- Autogenerated room descriptions T. Alexander Popiel
- Autogenerated room descriptions J C Lawrence
- Autogenerated room descriptions Nathan F Yospe
- Autogenerated room descriptions Richard Woolcock
- Autogenerated room descriptions S. Patrick Gallaty
- [CUSTOM] ScryMUD is opening for Beta on Oct 1! Ben Greear
- A little help Dale Hoffman
- A little help Robert Woods
- A little help Ling
- A little help Marc Bowden
- A little help Ling
- A little help Richard Woolcock
- A little help Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- A little help Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- A little help T. Alexander Popiel
- A little help chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- A little help Marc Bowden
- A little help Koster, Raph
- A little help Koster, Raph
- Mud adverts, was: ScryMUD is opening for Beta on Oct 1! Richard Woolcock
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) James Wilson
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Simulation (Was Room descriptions) Koster, Raph
- UO lawsuit (fwd) Adam Wiggins
- UO lawsuit (fwd) Koster, Raph
- Unix is a mud (Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?) J C Lawrence
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Ben Greear
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Bruce Mitchener
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Marc Bowden
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Chris Gray
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Ben Greear
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. James Wilson
- Telnet Echo OFF/ON commands and other thingies.. Chris Gray