June 1998
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website John Bertoglio
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies Matt Chatterley
- Exploring the guild phenomena J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Mike Sellers
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Richard Woolcock
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies T. Alexander Popiel
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Matthew R. Sheahan
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits Mike Sellers
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- META: membership list J C Lawrence
- META: Archives. Ling
- META: Archives. Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Jon Leonard
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs John Bertoglio
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Ben Greear
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Ling
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Levelless MUDs Jon A. Lambert
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs jacob langthorn
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Nathan F Yospe
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- Levelless MUDs Katrina McClelan
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs D. B. Brown
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Larry Homer
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- META: Erroneous bounce messages. J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Elis Pomales
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Koster, Raph
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Greg Munt
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Bruce Mitchener
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Robert Woods
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Adam Wiggins
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Holly Sommer
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base John Bertoglio
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Holly Sommer
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Andrew C.M. McClintock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Niklas Elmqvist
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Adam Wiggins
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? francois@toubol.com
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Nathan F Yospe
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Travis S. Casey
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? T. Alexander Popiel
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Bruce Mitchener
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Mud websites Greg Munt
- Mud websites Robert Woods
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites John Bertoglio
- Mud websites Adam Wiggins
- Mud websites Holly Sommer
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Vadim Tkachenko
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- LDAP server as ... Vadim Tkachenko
- LDAP server as ... J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Nathan F Yospe
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Michael Hohensee
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Telepathy Rules Lawrence W. Homer
- Off topic! But please help Marian Griffith
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Jon A. Lambert
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Holly Sommer
- META: Quoting, again. J C Lawrence
- Re:Telepathy Rules Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:Telepathy Rules Matt Chatterley
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system Mike Sellers
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system Adam J. Thornton
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system ##Make Nylander
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Mike Sellers
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Richard Woolcock
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility Oliver Jowett
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Dr. Cat
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Andrew C.M. McClintock
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility oliver@jowett.manawatu.planet.co.nz
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility T. Alexander Popiel
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility Vadim Tkachenko
- darkness/visibility Holly Sommer
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Ben Greear
- darkness/visibility Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- Off topic! ... J C Lawrence
- Mailing List Archives Elis Pomales
- Mailing List Archives J C Lawrence
- [Fwd: Temporality and user actions in MUDs] Richard Woolcock
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Mike Sellers
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- Away on a trip Bryce
- META: The web is a live again! J C Lawrence
- Away on a trip Bryce
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Finn Arne Gangstad
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mu Jon A. Lambert
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Dan Shiovitz
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Ben Greear
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) J C Lawrence
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave Mike Sellers
- stuff that makes me leave Robert Woods
- stuff that makes me leave Matt Chatterley
- (fwd) Temporality and user actions in MUDs J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Nathan F Yospe
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- Analysis and specification Ben Greear
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... Jon A. Lambert
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... brandon
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... S. Patrick Gallaty
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- User Input Parser, was darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- what's fun? Mike Sellers
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- Is worse better? J C Lawrence
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- Is worse better? Ben Greear
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Vadim Tkachenko
- Mozilla: unity of interface J C Lawrence
- Mozilla: unity of interface John Bertoglio
- OT:Is worse better? Nathan F Yospe
- OT:Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Richard Woolcock
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- ADMIN: OS Wars J C Lawrence
- MySQL scalability J C Lawrence
- Prescience Rules? [Previously submitted under wrong thread :( ] Larry Homer
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulleti Matt Chatterley
- Prescience Rules? Joel Kelso
- OT: Ack! Adam Wiggins
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) Adam J. Thornton
- bytecode results Chris Gray
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Vadim Tkachenko
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Nathan F Yospe
- Biting the hand that feeds you J C Lawrence
- RI Adventure Contest (fwd) Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun John Bertoglio
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Spangler, Jason
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis S. Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
On 3 Aug 98, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:46:21 -5
> Jon A Lambert<jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm questioning the direct linkage between real violence and mud
> > violence. How can one voluntarily and willingly participate in a
> > game where violence is possible, while maintaining that there is
> > such a link? I would maintain that willing participation in such a
> > environment is tantamount to endorsing the position that violence
> > does not occur in muds or that this "sort" of violence is quite
> > different than real violence and is acceptable. In addition,
> > acceptance of "violence" in such a context does not necessarily
> > translate into the way one lives one's real life.
>
> A very minimalist and impersonal interpretation of MUDs and their
> structure:
>
[snipped some predicates of the argument]
I would call this view the scientific approach. It is a system's
operational description. That is it places no moral or ethical value
statements on any actions. It merely describes behavior. Now if
only psychology could stick to such systemic models instead of
placing implicit or explicit value statements on behavior, it might
qualify as science. :P
> Player-derived changes are not technically limited to those
> objects not representing players (SAY and TELL are forms of
> manipulation as are GIVE, KILL, SUMMON, HUG, PUSH and STEAL), but
> may attempt to be by world or game design considerations
These player-player interactions in a real world are always
accompanied by moral assignations of "value". Even in a sterile and
closed experiment involving a fictional society made up wholly of
psychopathic or sociopathic objects, a "value" is still assigned to
an action.
> This is of course the classic, "Its all 1's and 0's, don't get take it
> so personally," argument. It argues that mass PK's and the like are
> merely bit shuffles with no notable effects outside of the contents of
> system memory.
> There are like arguments IRL: Genocide matters little in the grand
> scheme of things. The universe will neither care or notice. Distant
> galaxies will actually be entirely unaffected for the rest of eternity
> whether or not humanity extinguishes itself in nuclear fire or plague
> in the next fifteen minutes, or not. The bit it ignores of course is
> interpretation. I agree that the M59 galaxy will likely never care or
> be affected by whether the Hutu's are exterminated or not. However I
> and others prefer and attach emotive significance to that decision and
> its results. Ditto for the destruction of the rainforests and other
> points.
Right. But I daresay you will find few "true" believers in such
theories. Ask anyone who claims to believe such things to commit
suicide. If there is any resistence to this notion, then one is
logically forced to admit that they have made an assignation of value
to the action . Whether the M59 galaxy is an object that cares or
exerts will in any way comparable to a human object is an interesting
notion that has implications on both objects. ;)
> And there we have the crux of, "To PK or not to PK," or mechanics
> versus interpretation.
No one can deny that in a multiplayer game there is interaction
between humans. I like to think of such interaction as "speech".
That is no physical contact occurs between participants. Are there
codes of ethics and/or morality associated with actions limited to
speech? Yes. In addition, a game's rules may suspend value
judgements associated with the use of speech or may provide
additional moral restrictions on certain types of speech. For
instance in Trivial pursuit, there is an implicit rule that another
player may not shout out answers to another players questions,
against giving hints or reading the question in a misleading
manner. In order for one to play this game a particpiant must agree
to abide by the games rules. The rules place value on certain
actions involving speech. A much closer example is PBM or E-Mail
Diplomacy. In this game participants agree to subject themselves to
rather odd rules regarding speech. Backstabbing and prevarication
are fair game. Very few players take such matters personally. A
well executed diplomatic lie is often viewed with much admiration.
In addition "multi-charing" and communications outside the game are
viewed with disdain and punishable with the mud equivalent of
banning. Playing a game where your brother and cousin are playing
countries in coordination is also considered cheating. Enforcement
of such activity is as haphazard as your traditional mud considering
network anonymity, email forging, etc. and is done in much the same
way by game moderators and the judge server owner. OTOH, forging
Email in-game to appear to come from another player is well within
the rules. :)
In summary, I dont' believe it's all 1's and 0's is a valid or
rational position since the game involves human interaction. However
it may be valid to say "In this game, we are suspending any and all
moral valuations on any activities which occur during this game".
Quake might be a fair example of such a game. I think it's fair to
assume that such rules are pretty much implicit to playing the game.
It's also possible that one might not personally like other players
in the game and might seek every opportunity to humilate certain
people on a regular basis. I don't wish to debate whether one
playing with such a view is healthy or not. Any player is free to
withdrawal from any game for any reason.
> How much value and acknowledgment do we give to the emotive
> significances? ("safe" versus laissez faire) How much value and
> acknowledgement do we give to the above diagrammed mechanical
> structure as versus the interpreted content? (concensual versus power
> politics) Which is more important, the mechanical structure or the
> emotive interpretation?
>
I would suggest that most all games place a value on certain actions.
Such valuations may or may not coincide with the valuations placed
on comparable actions in the real world. Yes, I said most. Even in
mud games where most all of the rules regarding RL morals, civility
and ethics are suspended, there are usually some rules which are
enforced merely to hold players. I don't know many free-for-all
games that hold players for long if it is well known that admins and
their personal friends roam about with invincible characters randomly
killing anyone who logs in. Game players will always bring a very
basic (e)valuation to any game. If the game is fixed and/or known to
be unwinnable and without enjoyment it is not a desirable game to
play. It may not even qualify as a game at all. Sort of like
"Calvin-ball", if anyone gets the reference. ;)
My basic point is this.
If a mud allows unrestricted and nonconsential PvP interaction, then
anyone who participates in such a game does so voluntarily and
willingly. There can be no "victims" in such a game, either
emotionally or physically.
Now there certainly are games that I can imagination which very few
people will even entertain because they find them personally and
morally offensive. And extending that offense to IRL sanctions
towards the participants of such games is valid. Note the strong
response in the earlier threads in reference to mud rape. So a
strong moral stance against games which involve killing which
extended to IRL feelings towards those who enjoy or participate in
them is certainly a valid position. No? I personally know people
who will not participate in any game involving any references to
magic or demons. If one wishes to poo poo this as a silly notion
that's fine (I don't in fact agree with such a position), yet I will
defend it to be as sound as those who have strong moral reservations
about other types of activities in a game.
Which brings me back to my original point. If one participates
frequently in games which allow killing, how can one rational
consider RL emotional effects of being a "victim" should such action
occur to themself while participating in such a game? And if so why
the heck would one voluntarily participate in any such game. In
other words, one holds the viewpoint that their virtual game piece is
a personal avatar of themself. Actions which affect that avatar are
viewed equivalently with RL actions (PK ~= harassment). They are
participating in a game in which they have expectations which are not
reflective of the game rules nor ther players expectations. I think
it's incumbent upon the administrators of a such a game to be upfront
and define their own expectations and assumptions of their playerbase
as clearly as possible.
--
--/*\ Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Internet:jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com /*\--
--/*\ Mud Server Developer's Page <http://www.netcom.com/~jlsysinc> /*\--
--/*\ "Everything that deceives may be said to enchant" - Plato /*\-- - WIRED: Kilers have more fun Robert Woods
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Till Eulenspiegel
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Scatter
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Ling
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: One brave soul's UO diary. J C Lawrence
- Tron meets MUD meets the arcades. Detonation expected. J C Lawrence
- WWW/INN/news systems (Was: mud websites) Petri Virkkula
- Prescience Rules? Scatter
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- mud-related event: Dr. K... Brandon J. Rickman
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games J C Lawrence
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Koster, Raph
- ScryMUD: Source release, version 1.4 Ben Greear
- (fwd) Dantom's Universal Network Game (DUNG) Nathan Fenenga Yospe
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch J C Lawrence
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Thread implementations... J C Lawrence
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum J C Lawrence
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Nathan F Yospe
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Chris Gray
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- the why of online worlds Mike Sellers
- the why of online worlds Ben Greear
- A variation on persistent store techniques with notes on distributed processing support J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Dr. Cat
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Ling
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Vadim Tkachenko
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Chris Gray
- RP definitional structure J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence Ling
- Combat intelligence Niklas Elmqvist
- the why of online worlds. cat
- Rules of the game: How Long Till You Die J C Lawrence
- Rules of the Game: You don't always live twice Or... Take my life, Please J C Lawrence
- roleplaying farmers? Mike L Kesl
- roleplaying farmers? J C Lawrence
- Sugarscape: A-Life variation with economic interests J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Chris Gray
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Vadim Tkachenko