June 1998
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website John Bertoglio
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies Matt Chatterley
- Exploring the guild phenomena J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Mike Sellers
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Richard Woolcock
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies T. Alexander Popiel
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Matthew R. Sheahan
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits Mike Sellers
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- META: membership list J C Lawrence
- META: Archives. Ling
- META: Archives. Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Jon Leonard
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs John Bertoglio
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Ben Greear
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Ling
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Levelless MUDs Jon A. Lambert
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs jacob langthorn
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Nathan F Yospe
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- Levelless MUDs Katrina McClelan
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs D. B. Brown
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Larry Homer
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- META: Erroneous bounce messages. J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Elis Pomales
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Koster, Raph
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Greg Munt
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Bruce Mitchener
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Robert Woods
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Adam Wiggins
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Holly Sommer
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base John Bertoglio
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Holly Sommer
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Andrew C.M. McClintock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Niklas Elmqvist
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Adam Wiggins
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? francois@toubol.com
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Nathan F Yospe
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Travis S. Casey
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? T. Alexander Popiel
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Bruce Mitchener
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Mud websites Greg Munt
- Mud websites Robert Woods
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites John Bertoglio
- Mud websites Adam Wiggins
- Mud websites Holly Sommer
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Vadim Tkachenko
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- LDAP server as ... Vadim Tkachenko
- LDAP server as ... J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Nathan F Yospe
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Michael Hohensee
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Telepathy Rules Lawrence W. Homer
- Off topic! But please help Marian Griffith
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Jon A. Lambert
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Holly Sommer
- META: Quoting, again. J C Lawrence
- Re:Telepathy Rules Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:Telepathy Rules Matt Chatterley
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system Mike Sellers
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system Adam J. Thornton
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system ##Make Nylander
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Mike Sellers
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Richard Woolcock
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility Oliver Jowett
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Dr. Cat
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Andrew C.M. McClintock
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility oliver@jowett.manawatu.planet.co.nz
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility T. Alexander Popiel
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility Vadim Tkachenko
- darkness/visibility Holly Sommer
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Ben Greear
- darkness/visibility Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- Off topic! ... J C Lawrence
- Mailing List Archives Elis Pomales
- Mailing List Archives J C Lawrence
- [Fwd: Temporality and user actions in MUDs] Richard Woolcock
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Mike Sellers
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- Away on a trip Bryce
- META: The web is a live again! J C Lawrence
- Away on a trip Bryce
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Finn Arne Gangstad
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mu Jon A. Lambert
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Dan Shiovitz
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Ben Greear
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) J C Lawrence
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave Mike Sellers
- stuff that makes me leave Robert Woods
- stuff that makes me leave Matt Chatterley
- (fwd) Temporality and user actions in MUDs J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Nathan F Yospe
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- Analysis and specification Ben Greear
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... Jon A. Lambert
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... brandon
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... S. Patrick Gallaty
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- User Input Parser, was darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- what's fun? Mike Sellers
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- Is worse better? J C Lawrence
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- Is worse better? Ben Greear
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Vadim Tkachenko
- Mozilla: unity of interface J C Lawrence
- Mozilla: unity of interface John Bertoglio
- OT:Is worse better? Nathan F Yospe
- OT:Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Richard Woolcock
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- ADMIN: OS Wars J C Lawrence
- MySQL scalability J C Lawrence
- Prescience Rules? [Previously submitted under wrong thread :( ] Larry Homer
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulleti Matt Chatterley
- Prescience Rules? Joel Kelso
- OT: Ack! Adam Wiggins
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) Adam J. Thornton
- bytecode results Chris Gray
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Vadim Tkachenko
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Nathan F Yospe
- Biting the hand that feeds you J C Lawrence
- RI Adventure Contest (fwd) Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun John Bertoglio
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Spangler, Jason
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
On Tue 28 Jul, Koster, Raph wrote:
> From: Marian Griffith [mailto:gryphon@iaehv.nl]
> It's worth noting that as much as UO gets brought up as an example of
> the freewheeling highly dangerous game (and the "kitchen sink" too) its
> original intent was actually fairly easily summed up. We wanted to make
> an alternate world. A microcosm. That meant we wanted to have in it as
> much as we could to get the feeling of having an alternate world. Some
> of us were from MUSH backgrounds, others from LP backgrounds, and some
> from Diku backgrounds. Some weren't mudders at all. But the intent was
> always to make an alternate world. Some features clearly were
> overdesigned, others underdesigned, others missing, but on the whole, we
> ended up with precisely the sorts of problems one would expect from
> having an alternate world. I was quite mesmerized by the possibilities,
> and wanted to take some steps towards virtual reality, and towards
> virtual environments that were dynamic, rather than static. Similarly,
> all my postings about the need for player-driven social controls and the
> necessity for combat and all that arise from that perspective.
I am sorry if I am partly guilty in using ultima examples too much, and
never having played that game myself at that. I will try to find other
examples I promise.
I do suspect however that part of the PK image ultima has is because of
the media coverage of those things that are most likely to draw attent-
ion. Have you any idea how large a part of the players spend their time
in the safety of the cities as opposed to those who go out and fight?
> Legend wasn't about an alternate world. It was about strong narrative
> experiences. It in fact regularly committed that room description thing
> that has been cited as a cardinal sin here: telling the player how they
> felt. It was actually a design principle (and I'll gladly argue why it
> was a valid one, and why Legend's descs won't be matched by a
> description-generation system anytime this century). Quests were specced
> to feel like movies. Rooms were vetted to read like descriptions from a
> novel. Yes, there was an interesting degree of freedom in the skills
> system, and in other areas, but the game was very much about being a
> game, being a carnival ride through history, or a history-themed theme
> park. Quite a far cry from UO.
I guess that is why I never could get really into that game. I like muds
but not for the killing of ever more mythical monsters but for the group
play. Getting to do things together like facing danger and attempting to
keep everybody alive and cooperating, and in between chatting with each
other.
The other half of me wants to play a tailor and create fashion. I have
yet to find a game that allows me to do that in a meaningful way.
> It's sort of bizarre for me now to see UO as such a touchstone on the
> list (is this the longest thread in the list's history yet?), defining a
> certain approach or something to the social issues.
Possibly because it is the only game for which there is somebody on this
list who wants to talk about it and that has to deal with the range of
social issues that crop up on the various topics on the list. And maybe
it is just easier to take an example from ultima instead of thinking up
another buffo and biffy example.
> My personal preference at this point in my gaming career would be for a
> full-bore RP environment that supports PK for roleplay purposes only. I
> don't see myself designing such a game, however. I don't design to my
> audience, in this case. There are too few people who want to play like I
> do (which is in a manner I suspect quite akin to how Marian plays,
> actually!).
Afraid so yes ;)
But I think you underestimate the number of players who would like to
play a game like that. There are myriads of white wolf mushes that are
in essence just what you describe. The hard part, and the social engi-
neering part, is to make the pk a very limited thing on a game.
> > But then I think that games like ultima online fit very well into the
> > scheme of Mr. Bartle and needs a small amount of disruptive players.
> > Of course the catch is that it needs a small amount of such behaviour
> > or it will totally overpower the social fabric of the game.
> Yep. And Richard's (can I call you that now, Richard? :) essay was right
> at hand when I was working on UO. As were a heck of a lot of other
> resources. Given a "sandbox" design we NEED that sort of thing. We also
> need the "kitchen sink" for the same reason. It's a sandbox, and the
> more toys we toss in there, the longer people keep themselves amused.
> (but of course, some toys are more fun than others). I suspect that the
> value of "recess squabbles" is very high in such a playground
> environment. It's not a very PLAYFUL environment, though. In most ways
> it's taken deadly seriously--something I'd love to change for the next
> thing I do.
*grin* Like the fishing skill? I still believe that the players had a
certain right to be upset about that, though not for the reasons they
apparently were ;) Whether or not fishing is profitable is not at all
relevant, but if it is enjoyable and in a way a career should be.
> > On the other hand, as Dr.Cat pointed out, there is a huge amount of
> > people who would not be attracted to a game like that and who would
> > prefer something far more safer for their game environment.
>
> Absolutely. Massive quantities of them. And as I have stated before, I
> have a LOT of respect for Dr Cat and his work, and think his comments on
> overdesign, and on attention as currency, are dead on. In fact, I feel
> somewhat uncomfortable feeling put in opposition to him, as this thread
> seems to have done...
Please do not. I am certain nobody intentionally put ultima and furcadia
as opposites. They are apples and pears. Perhaps accidentally different
in their attitude towards conflict and combat in the game but to me that
is only a very small part of two very different games for very different
audiences.
> If we are working towards virtual realities, as I think we are, then I
> think that there's a problem set there to solve. And we can reduce it by
> going with a smaller design, sure--one tailored to that vast group of
> people who would rather not deal with certain aspects it is possible to
> simulate, such as violence. As Dr Cat said, we can choose not to add in
> combat.
Personally I believe it must be possible to make combat less of an over-
whelming factor of a game by giving similar detailed attention to other
aspects. If there are 50 levels and hundreds of ways to attack monsters
and players alike and you can also learn carpentry skill and make tables
then it is obvious that you are expected to go out and fight things.
> But *somebody* is gonna add combat. And since I was (and still am,
> though my interest is shifting) interested in tackling many of the
> problems that arise with an environment that includes as many of the
> experiences life offers as can be made interesting, I regard it as
> "leaving it out." That's not intended to be derogatory towards those who
> leave it out; they are not trying to address the same problem set, is
> all. I want to tackle the problem set of the day when we have a MUD
> (read: spatial, multi-user) interface to the entire Internet, which I
> don't think is that far away.
*shudder* I am not sure I like to see that happen.
> Quite beyond that, I have serious doubts about the commercial
> feasibility of a server that's completely safe. Not because of the lack
> of interest, but because of the amount of cops you have to pay to keep
> it safe. I use as my rule of thumb whether or not we're willing to pay
> enough cops to keep us safe in the real world, where the stakes are a
> lot higher. :(
What I am hoping for is that if fighting is sufficiently rare it will be
easier to deal with the problem players. You do not need as many cops to
police a group that is basically behaving itself with a few exceptions
as it is to control a band of anarchists.
> Because fundamentally,
> that's what a safe environment is promising: nobody will screw you over.
> And I can't currently design a way around that. I doubt I will ever be
> able to. You can reduce the problem set, but the problem doesn't go
> away... what's worse, the safer you say you are, the more of a target
> you paint on your chest. A nasty dilemma.
It is that. And you are right that you can not promise an entirely safe
environment. But perhaps you can empower the online society so that it
can deal with most of the problems and only requires the staff in more
extreme cases of players who will not listen to reason and will not be
deterred.
On a more cynical note. You do not have to do things as much as giving
the impression that you are dealing with the problem. Players will put
up with a lot of things if they feel their complaint is taken seriously
and the staff is working on it.
> Whew, that was an outpouring. Basically, I cheer on the "safe game"
> designs. Love to see how you do it. Am openly skeptical about how you'll
> do it. Hope you prove me wrong. And I go about it in a more cynical way.
> ;) UO was intended as just a microcosm, you see. The fact that it is as
> dangerous as it is speaks, IMHO, more to human nature than anything
> else...
Sad but probably true :(
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey - WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
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- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis S. Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Robert Woods
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Till Eulenspiegel
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Scatter
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Ling
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: One brave soul's UO diary. J C Lawrence
- Tron meets MUD meets the arcades. Detonation expected. J C Lawrence
- WWW/INN/news systems (Was: mud websites) Petri Virkkula
- Prescience Rules? Scatter
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- mud-related event: Dr. K... Brandon J. Rickman
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games J C Lawrence
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Koster, Raph
- ScryMUD: Source release, version 1.4 Ben Greear
- (fwd) Dantom's Universal Network Game (DUNG) Nathan Fenenga Yospe
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch J C Lawrence
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Thread implementations... J C Lawrence
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum J C Lawrence
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Nathan F Yospe
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Chris Gray
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- the why of online worlds Mike Sellers
- the why of online worlds Ben Greear
- A variation on persistent store techniques with notes on distributed processing support J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Dr. Cat
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Ling
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Vadim Tkachenko
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Chris Gray
- RP definitional structure J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence Ling
- Combat intelligence Niklas Elmqvist
- the why of online worlds. cat
- Rules of the game: How Long Till You Die J C Lawrence
- Rules of the Game: You don't always live twice Or... Take my life, Please J C Lawrence
- roleplaying farmers? Mike L Kesl
- roleplaying farmers? J C Lawrence
- Sugarscape: A-Life variation with economic interests J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Chris Gray
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Vadim Tkachenko