June 1998
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website John Bertoglio
- Playerkilling website Koster, Raph
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- Playerkilling website J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Multiple currencies Matt Chatterley
- Exploring the guild phenomena J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Mike Sellers
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies Richard Woolcock
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies T. Alexander Popiel
- Re:(fwd) Multiple currencies J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Matthew R. Sheahan
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling Mike Sellers
- Administrative Meddling Jon A. Lambert
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- Administrative Meddling J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits Mike Sellers
- OT: ICQ hacks and exploits J C Lawrence
- META: membership list J C Lawrence
- META: Archives. Ling
- META: Archives. Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Jon Leonard
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs John Bertoglio
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs J C Lawrence
- Levelless MUDs Ben Greear
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Ling
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Travis S. Casey
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Levelless MUDs Jon A. Lambert
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs jacob langthorn
- Levelless MUDs Holly Sommer
- Levelless MUDs Nathan F Yospe
- Levelless MUDs Koster, Raph
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- Levelless MUDs Katrina McClelan
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs Adam Wiggins
- Levelless MUDs D. B. Brown
- Levelless MUDs Matt Chatterley
- Levelless MUDs Larry Homer
- Levelless MUDs Richard Woolcock
- META: Erroneous bounce messages. J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? J C Lawrence
- The lessons of Habitat's Dr Death repeated? Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Elis Pomales
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Koster, Raph
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Greg Munt
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jon A. Lambert
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Bruce Mitchener
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Robert Woods
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Adam Wiggins
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Holly Sommer
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Matt Chatterley
- In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base John Bertoglio
- MUDZilla -- commercial server base J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Mike Sellers
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Greg Munt
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Holly Sommer
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Richard Woolcock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Andrew C.M. McClintock
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Niklas Elmqvist
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Adam Wiggins
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? francois@toubol.com
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Nathan F Yospe
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Travis S. Casey
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? T. Alexander Popiel
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Bruce Mitchener
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mud development? Chris Gray
- Mud websites Greg Munt
- Mud websites Robert Woods
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Koster, Raph
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites John Bertoglio
- Mud websites Adam Wiggins
- Mud websites Holly Sommer
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Travis S. Casey
- Mud websites Vadim Tkachenko
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites Oliver Jowett
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- mud websites J C Lawrence
- mud websites Scatter
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites J C Lawrence
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- Mud websites Matt Chatterley
- Mud websites Chris Gray
- LDAP server as ... Vadim Tkachenko
- LDAP server as ... J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Nathan F Yospe
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Elis Pomales
- Nested Coordinate spaces. Michael Hohensee
- Nested Coordinate spaces. J C Lawrence
- Telepathy Rules Lawrence W. Homer
- Off topic! But please help Marian Griffith
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Jon A. Lambert
- Off topic! But please help John Bertoglio
- Off topic! But please help Holly Sommer
- META: Quoting, again. J C Lawrence
- Re:Telepathy Rules Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Re:Telepathy Rules Matt Chatterley
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system Mike Sellers
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system John Bertoglio
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system Adam J. Thornton
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system jacob langthorn
- Databases: was skill system ##Make Nylander
- Databases: was skill system Jon A. Lambert
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system J C Lawrence
- Databases: was skill system T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Mike Sellers
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) T. Alexander Popiel
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Richard Woolcock
- Mud-time vs real-time (was skill system) Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility Oliver Jowett
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Dr. Cat
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Andrew C.M. McClintock
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility oliver@jowett.manawatu.planet.co.nz
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility T. Alexander Popiel
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- darkness/visibility Adam Wiggins
- darkness/visibility Vadim Tkachenko
- darkness/visibility Holly Sommer
- darkness/visibility Benjamin D. Wiechel
- darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility Ben Greear
- darkness/visibility Katrina McClelan
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility J C Lawrence
- darkness/visibility Travis S. Casey
- darkness/visibility Chris Gray
- Off topic! ... J C Lawrence
- Mailing List Archives Elis Pomales
- Mailing List Archives J C Lawrence
- [Fwd: Temporality and user actions in MUDs] Richard Woolcock
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Mike Sellers
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Jo Dillon
- PC 99 standard In game bulletin boards vs. Web based. Richard Woolcock
- Away on a trip Bryce
- META: The web is a live again! J C Lawrence
- Away on a trip Bryce
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Jon Leonard
- Technical C/C++ coding question Katrina McClelan
- Technical C/C++ coding question Ben Greear
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question Shawn Halpenny
- Technical C/C++ coding question J C Lawrence
- Technical C/C++ coding question Finn Arne Gangstad
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words of mu Jon A. Lambert
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Dan Shiovitz
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Ben Greear
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) J C Lawrence
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulletin...) Katrina McClelan
- stuff that makes me leave Richard Woolcock
- stuff that makes me leave Mike Sellers
- stuff that makes me leave Robert Woods
- stuff that makes me leave Matt Chatterley
- (fwd) Temporality and user actions in MUDs J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Nathan F Yospe
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- OT: Announcement Chris Gray
- OT: Announcement s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Analysis and specification Shawn Halpenny
- Analysis and specification Ben Greear
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... Jon A. Lambert
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... brandon
- The great crusade.... Mike Sellers
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... Koster, Raph
- The great crusade.... S. Patrick Gallaty
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- The great crusade.... J C Lawrence
- User Input Parser, was darkness/visibility Richard Woolcock
- what's fun? Mike Sellers
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- what's fun? J C Lawrence
- what's fun? Richard Bartle
- Is worse better? J C Lawrence
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- Is worse better? Ben Greear
- Is worse better? Katrina McClelan
- Is worse better? Vadim Tkachenko
- Mozilla: unity of interface J C Lawrence
- Mozilla: unity of interface John Bertoglio
- OT:Is worse better? Nathan F Yospe
- OT:Is worse better? Jon A. Lambert
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Richard Woolcock
- [Fwd: Warfare on retromud.org 3000] Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- ADMIN: OS Wars J C Lawrence
- MySQL scalability J C Lawrence
- Prescience Rules? [Previously submitted under wrong thread :( ] Larry Homer
- stuff that makes me leave (was In game bulleti Matt Chatterley
- Prescience Rules? Joel Kelso
- OT: Ack! Adam Wiggins
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Natural Language Parsing (Was: darkness/visibility) Adam J. Thornton
- bytecode results Chris Gray
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Vadim Tkachenko
- Prescience Rules? Richard Woolcock
- Prescience Rules? Nathan F Yospe
- Biting the hand that feeds you J C Lawrence
- RI Adventure Contest (fwd) Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun John Bertoglio
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Spangler, Jason
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Holly Sommer
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis S. Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Travis Casey
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Robert Woods
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matthew R. Sheahan
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Till Eulenspiegel
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Nathan F Yospe
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Mike Sellers
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dr. Cat
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Joel Kelso
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:58:23 -0500 (CDT)
Cat <cat@bga.com> wrote:
> It is telling that you refer to "leaving combat out", as if the
> default state is to contain combat, and if you don't have it then
> you've "changed" something or done something "unusual". I don't
> view combat as having been "left out" of IRC, ICQ, or the many
> TinyMUD descendants that don't contain any. I view them as having
> "not been added in". The words you use to describe a game without
> combat & the words I use to describe it are an indicator of our
> respective biases, I think.
Nahh. Combat is very definitely a part and parcel of IRC, and
TinyMUDs -- they just haven't formalised it. In the IRC cases
consider the cases of channel splitting, the use of robots to
steal/prevent stealing of admin priviledges etc, and for TinyMUDs,
wouldn't the LambdaMOO rape case serve well enough?
>> It is "shouldering the burden of organization on the code side" to
>> be exact. And it is, yes, a sacrifice of freedom of action for the
>> player.
> That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that
> environments where everything is done with a pose/emote type command
> offer the ultimate freedom of action, and games where they impose
> the game mechanics of the coded combat system on you off you less
> freedom of action.
The counter to which is that posed command sets require other players
to assume the relative effects on the game world (as the server
doesn't track them). The extreme of which of course has the server
providing no game world -- the whole things happens ala the
storytelling IRC channels (which are populaar I note).
There is a critical difference between:
> pose carves his name on the tree
and:
> carve bubba on tree
in terms of who creates the initial data set, and who creates and
manages the data's persistance.
> By refusing to allow you to do things that "aren't possible" in the
> combat rules, like making your sword turn into a pink-polka-dotted
> nuclear bomb, by refusing to allow you to hit (or miss) when you
> choose to do so, rather than when the dice come up the right way,
> and by making you subject to the effects of actions that, in a world
> of ultimate freedom of action, you might have chosen to respond to
> with the classic "bang you're dead - no I'm not" countermove. Some
> freedom is added - the freedom to more effectively impose YOUR "bang
> you're dead" on a would-be no-I'm-notter, a freedom you don't have
> in the pose-everything world. But it's freedom given one at the
> cost of taking from another, and there are freedoms globally removed
> from everybody, like the ability to turn your platemail instantly
> into fluffernutter sandwiches for a picnic, so I have to say the
> total, global amount of freedom becomes lower when you code combat
> into a game, not higher.
There are two base freedoms:
1) The ability to create an effect.
2) The ability to refuse or stop an effect. (which is really just
the corrolary and counter to #1).
Formalised combat (swords etc) merely defines a certain class of
effects for #1. As a side-effect it also defines the mechanics of #2
(armour, parry skill, etc).
> Are the pkiller, the obscenity shouter, the game-crashing hacker,
> the entrance blocker examples of "agressor"? Or are they examples
> of "thief"?
Both. The tags are not exclusionary.
> Somebody who is stealing the information-age currency of "attention"
> from you without giving the tradional sorts of payments, like being
> interesting, friendly, or helpful?
As a friend put it (paraphrased): "The most prized particle there is,
is admiration."
> Personally, I really feel like attention-control mechanisms are far
> superior to life-and-death control mechanisms for a myriad of
> reasons, not the least of which is that they accurately represent
> what the players are REALLY dealing in with each other, trading,
> sharing, stealing, coveting.
Why are lif-and-death control mechanisms not a mere class of
attention-control mechanisms?
> This particular incident involves, among other things, the use of
> posed violence and murder. There's tension and dispute about such
> issues, among others, as whether to deal with the issue in an IC or
> OOC manner, whether the guild should RP conflicts with evil/violent
> characters who are non-members of the guild that come in trying to
> act out attacks, or if they need to establish some characters within
> their "RP Circle" who everyone agrees will be playing as evil.
> (Talzhemir, my co-creator, has guidelines for this in her Sanctioned
> Guilds page, indicating that evil characters should only be played
> in these situations by members of the guild, to avoid just exactly
> the kinds of problems The Circle is facing right now. Of course
> most of them haven't read those guidelines yet - I'm going to
> suggest more of them take a peek.)
Coming from an utterly non-RP viewpoint, my instant answer to the
above dispute: "Coventry!". If you don't like the chap or what he is
doing, and he is in essence unable to care direct effects on you, just
ignore him. cf newsreader killfiles. If they don't agree to the game
the other chap is playing, then there is no requirement that they play
it.
> There have also been incidents with players trying to cause OOC
> types of trouble for the guild - mostly people that have been
> ejected and/or banned from Sanctuary for being rude or not following
> the rules there. A common attack against them is to surround the
> entrance to their map with obstacles so nobody can get in, which
> requires members to go and clear the obstacles. There was also an
> incident where a member of the guild used a bot or macro to spam one
> of these "enemies" of the guild, prompting him to go after the guild
> more aggressively. When the guild leader told him he mustn't spam
> people like that, he quit the guild in anger and vowed to become an
> enemy of the guild himself.
Any you say these aren't example of combat?
> In "astronomy mud" where some scientists are simulating physics in
> order to develop and test out theories about star and galaxy
> formation, simulating the presence of thousands or millions of
> rabbits and orcs upon that little "earth" planet (or any other
> planet), your ability to go there and kill them and eat them,
> etc. would be a huge waste of resources. It would suck up
> programmer time to implement, and suck up disk space and memory
> during runtime, without contributing in the least to the goals of
> the project. On the other hand, simulating the motion and
> gravitational effects in Ultima Online of some nebula or pulsar or
> black whole millions of light years from Britannia would be a waste
> of memory and disk space and CPU cycles on your servers. Couldn't
> the astronomers rightly sneer that UO is not a "full environment"
> for not having that? Or is it the case that A) there are no "full
> environments" possible (remember that a computer totally simulating
> the whole universe would have to contain a total simulation of
> itself within a subset of itself, leading to infinite regress), and
> B) you can't even meaningfully speak of "more full" or "less full",
> because different goal-sets for online environments aren't all
> co-linear, but rather scattered over a weird multidimensional
> solution space.
> I think "full environment" is just a prejudicial and misleading
> term.
The base question is what is being represented. Typically in MUD what
is being represetnted by players is themselves, or some other
"somebody". In Astronomy MUD players are not representing themselves,
they are representing astronomical figures. Food, sex, etc are
important to Homo Sap. selves, but not really to galaxies.
The gravitational constant, relativistic effects, and vast distances
are important to astonomical objects, but hardly to Homo Sap. selves.
>>> Or, depending on the style and focus of the game, in some cases
>>> you could get a playership that is MORE conducive to good
>>> self-government than a random samplying of average human beings
>>> would be. Naturally.
> Earlier, in a passage I didn't quote, you replied to my believe that
> combat-games attract those least suited to self governance. Here
> you agree that some type of game could attract people above average
> for it.
"Above average"? Above defines a scale and infers a degree of
desirability. I question that validity.
> If the goal is to find a game model that causes self-governance to
> occur, then, it would seem reasonable to conclude that one should be
> seeking a game that does not contain combat, and that does have
> whatever it takes to attract these above average people.
Given that the attracted set are not representative of the greater
population (ie the "average"), then a key question is whether any
results from such a constrained population can validly map to the
greater population.
> Ok, I'll go crawl back in my hole now. 98% of the list only wants
> to make games about combat, right? :X)
Nahh. Not _about_, just _inclusive_of_.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@null.net
(Contractor) Internet: coder@ibm.net
---------(*) Internet: claw@under.engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Maddy
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun CJones@aagis.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Adam Wiggins
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Marian Griffith
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun S. Patrick Gallaty
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Koster, Raph
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Scatter
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Ling
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Matt Chatterley
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Damion Schubert
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun J C Lawrence
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Jon A. Lambert
- WIRED: One brave soul's UO diary. J C Lawrence
- Tron meets MUD meets the arcades. Detonation expected. J C Lawrence
- WWW/INN/news systems (Was: mud websites) Petri Virkkula
- Prescience Rules? Scatter
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Dan Shiovitz
- mud-related event: Dr. K... Brandon J. Rickman
- Suggested theme, was WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games Jo Dillon
- Multi-Server games MH
- Multi-Server games J C Lawrence
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Ben Greear
- Multi-Server games Vadim Tkachenko
- Multi-Server games Koster, Raph
- ScryMUD: Source release, version 1.4 Ben Greear
- (fwd) Dantom's Universal Network Game (DUNG) Nathan Fenenga Yospe
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch J C Lawrence
- I/O Event Handling Under Linux by Richard Gooch s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Thread implementations... J C Lawrence
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Richard Woolcock
- Suggested theme Chris Gray
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o J C Lawrence
- Analysis and specification - the dirty words o Jon A. Lambert
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum J C Lawrence
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Nathan F Yospe
- Quotes from Marcus Ranum Chris Gray
- WIRED: Kilers have more fun Chris Gray
- the why of online worlds Mike Sellers
- the why of online worlds Ben Greear
- A variation on persistent store techniques with notes on distributed processing support J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Dr. Cat
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Ling
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? J C Lawrence
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Travis S. Casey
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Vadim Tkachenko
- You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD? Chris Gray
- RP definitional structure J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence J C Lawrence
- Combat intelligence Ling
- Combat intelligence Niklas Elmqvist
- the why of online worlds. cat
- Rules of the game: How Long Till You Die J C Lawrence
- Rules of the Game: You don't always live twice Or... Take my life, Please J C Lawrence
- roleplaying farmers? Mike L Kesl
- roleplaying farmers? J C Lawrence
- Sugarscape: A-Life variation with economic interests J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Chris Gray
- Embedded languages was Databases: was skill system Vadim Tkachenko