May 1998
- OT: CGDC Adam Wiggins
- OT: CGDC Mike Sellers
- There can be.. only ONE! (fwd) Ling
- There can be.. only ONE! (fwd) Matt Chatterley
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma Jon A. Lambert
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma Chris Gray
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma Adam Wiggins
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma J C Lawrence
- (fwd) AD: [custom graphical] whitestar Crossfi Jon A. Lambert
- LIST: The "MUD-DEV" MUD Development mailing list J C Lawrence
- Wired, UO, Mike Sellers
- Wired, UO, John Bertoglio
- Wired, UO, and Internet Gaming (was OT: Dr. Cat
- Wired, UO, and Internet Gaming (was OT: Koster, Raph
- Wired, UO, and Internet Gaming (was OT: J C Lawrence
- Wired, UO, and Internet Gaming (was OT: John Bertoglio
- OT: Supporting articles found for UOL play style Jon A. Lambert
- PK's: A solution? J C Lawrence
- Preview of Asheron's Call J C Lawrence
- Asheron's Call Interview with Toby Ragaini, Lead Designer, and Jon Grande, Product Planner. J C Lawrence
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources Adam Wiggins
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources Dan Shiovitz
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources Adam Wiggins
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources J C Lawrence
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources Koster, Raph
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources J C Lawrence
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources John Bertoglio
- Character maintinence - expenditure of resources J C Lawrence
- Motivations for Creating Mud-Like Worllds and Servers | John Bertoglio
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail J C Lawrence
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail John Bertoglio
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail Matt Chatterley
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail J C Lawrence
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail J C Lawrence
- Character development [was ] Koster, Raph
- Motivations for Creating Mud-Like Worlds and Servers Holly Sommer
- META -- membership Jay Sax
- META -- membership Koster, Raph
- META -- membership J C Lawrence
- Motivations (was something else...) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Motivations (was something else...) Richard Woolcock
- client UI written in server's language (was Some thoughts...) Erik Ostrom
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma J C Lawrence
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma Travis S. Casey
- Some thoughts on languages and users - was: Ma J C Lawrence
- META: Character of the list's membership J C Lawrence
- quickie CGDC report Mike Sellers
- quickie CGDC report Adam Wiggins
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately J C Lawrence
- Some essays I've written lately Koster, Raph
- Some essays I've written lately J C Lawrence
- Some essays I've written lately J C Lawrence
- Frandel 3D (fwd) Holly Sommer
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Raph Koster
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Koster, Raph
- MURKLE: Wot it is Dr. Cat
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Shawn Halpenny
- MURKLE: Wot it is Mike Sellers
- MURKLE: Wot it is Nathan F Yospe
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Chris Gray
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Chris Gray
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Ling
- MURKLE: Wot it is Oliver Jowett
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Ling
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is Ling
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- MURKLE: Wot it is jacob langthorn
- MURKLE: Wot it is Jon A. Lambert
- MURKLE: Wot it is J C Lawrence
- We're Tiny, we're Toonie, we're all a little Loonie! Ling
- META: Search features of the MUD-Dev archive J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Adam Wiggins
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary Holly Sommer
- CGDC, a summary Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Chris Gray
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Marian Griffith
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Mike Sellers
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Chris Gray
- CGDC, a summary Travis S. Casey
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary Adam Wiggins
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary Chris Gray
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary John Bertoglio
- CGDC, a summary s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- CGDC, a summary John Bertoglio
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary John Bertoglio
- CGDC, a summary Koster, Raph
- CGDC, a summary Joel Kelso
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Marian Griffith
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Marian Griffith
- CGDC, a summary Jon A. Lambert
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary J C Lawrence
- CGDC, a summary Adam Wiggins
- CGDC, a summary Jon A. Lambert
- CGDC, a summary Orion Henry
- MUD mentation system Matthew R. Sheahan
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Ben Greear
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. John Bertoglio
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Ben Greear
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Dan Shiovitz
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Ben Greear
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Adam Wiggins
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Vadim Tkachenko
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Richard Woolcock
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Ben Greear
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. Dan Shiovitz
- How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world. J C Lawrence
- On tanks... J C Lawrence
- On tanks... Ling
- More on LetsSystems J C Lawrence
- Attributes: Sanity Holly Sommer
- Attributes: Sanity Travis S. Casey
- Attributes: Sanity Holly Sommer
- Attributes: Sanity Holly Sommer
- Attributes: Sanity Adam Wiggins
- Attributes: Sanity Travis S. Casey
- Attributes: Sanity Holly Sommer
- Attributes: Sanity Holly Sommer
- mudschools Marian Griffith
- mudschools Matt Chatterley
- Mudschool Ling
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator John Bertoglio
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator John Bertoglio
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator Holly Sommer
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator John Bertoglio
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator Vadim Tkachenko
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator John Bertoglio
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator J C Lawrence
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator Vadim Tkachenko
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator John Bertoglio
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator Robert Woods
- Leaving characters in play Joel Kelso
- Leaving characters in play Ben Greear
- Leaving characters in play John Bertoglio
- Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Leaving characters in play J C Lawrence
- Leaving characters in play John Bertoglio
- Leaving characters in play Travis S. Casey
- Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Leaving characters in play John Bertoglio
- Leaving characters in play J C Lawrence
- Leaving characters in play J C Lawrence
On Sat, 16 May 1998 02:49:20 -0700
John Bertoglio<alexb@internetcds.com> wrote:
> From: J C Lawrence <claw@under.engr.sgi.com> To: mud-dev@kanga.nu
> <mud-dev@kanga.nu> Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 6:11 PM
>> On Thu, 14 May 1998 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Adam
>> Wiggins<adam@angel.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 May 1998, John Bertoglio wrote:
>> It is this point which has persuaded me to almost entirely move
>> away from round based combat. I refuse to place the entire game
>> and all players on a pacing clock (humans shall not wait for
>> machines), but not using a global clock while using usably long
>> combat rounds opens the combat system for all sorts of interesting
>> abuse due to the inconsistant time scales.
> Minor point with confusion. Do you mean time scale as in real time
> (seconds ticking on a clock) or another concept I am (obiously)
> unfamilier with.
There are two basic approaches:
Events in game require a definite amount of time to execute.
Events in game are executed as fast as they can be received and
processed.
I tend to the later. Attempting to mix that with combat rounds, which
ar necessarily of the former type, doesn't work well.
> If you issue a command, drink jug and the connection is quick, the
> screen quickly returns something like "The jug is now empty". Now I
> know some of you out there could drain a jug in a few
> miliseconds...but most of us can't. Most of us cannot work our way
> up to the top of a 10,000 ft mountain in the time it takes to type
> "CLIMB" or "UP" five times.
Ahh. For me you can (pending resource limitations). Then again a key
part of this is that the commands to climb could originate from the
player, from his client, or from in-game user programs. As such
typing rate is not relevant.
> Some quick questions. I guess most would consider round-based combat
> to be similar to a boxing match where the rounds are discrete chunks
> of time. I think more like a wargamer...a combat round is a period
> in which a certain number of actions are executed by the combatants
> and then resolved.
I'm using the latter definition for "rounds". What I used to have was
a "combat object" (search the archives for that term, lotsa good
discussion) which was created at the inception of combat, and which
mediated the combat rounds from then on. Players then input intended
actions for each round to the combat object, and at the end of each
round the combat object resolved the various attempted actions,
derived a sequence of the actual effected actions, applied the actions
and the result damages and side-effects, and then started the next
round.
My current concept for combat at a user interface level is to have no
implicit interface. Commands are entered for each blow, or a command
may be entered to repetitively attempt a blow or sequence of blows.
Thus there is no combat state outside of the client, and the combat
lasts as long as any participant continues to originate actions that
other participants consider combative.
>> I don't have a good design. The best I can think of so far is:
>>
>> -- No first blows are fatal.
> Why? You hit a bunny with a halbred and you either miss or have a
> binary bunny.
Then you'll tend to either miss all first blows to bunnies, or merely
graze/injure the bunny (assuming that the bunny is player
controlled). The idea is not to ensure that a player can necessarily
__escape__ any attack. The idea is that a player has the opportunity,
if fleeting, to causitively react to an attack. Single-blow
insta-death attacks prevent that. Having first blows fore-shadowed to
the player:
You see something whirr towards you!
> duck
You hit the dirt. An arrow flies by overhead.
doesn't work well for bullets, missiles, earthquakes, planetary
collisions (esp if on the far side) etc.
> Now when our system is finished, I guarantee that no player will
> score a one hit kill on another player...but that is a different
> story.
>> -- First blows may be nearly fatal.
> Of course.
>> -- Second blows can be fatal, but its very very unlikely,
>> especially if the first blow was nearly fatal.
> Sounds like you are considering manipulating fate (luck) in combat
> fortunes. I see this a partial solution to PK...Operant
> conditioning..."I got womped by a newbie with a dagger! Bummer. He
> took all my stuff."
Yup. Essentially I am attempting to install extra time to allow for
intelligent reactions. I want the newbie with the bodkin to still
kill the hero, but I want the hero to have a chance to see what's
happening first.
>> -- Arrange these probabilities appropriately to force most combats
>> to the 15 - 20 seconds point.
> I disagree here. Let combat spin off on its own. I (barely) recall a
> movie which had Sean Connery in single combat with a bad guy. Both
> were in full armor fighting in the middle of a hot, grassy
> field. Neither could get the better of the other. The fight took
> quite a while. At the end, both were so exausted the could not
> stand. A similar fight could happen in our system with carefully
> matched opponents. Fatigue happens even if damage doesn't. Fighters
> could dance around each other for five minutes (RT) using defensive
> attack profiles until one was taunted into launching a real attack
> or they fell into a heap and were killed by a nasty bunny.
Nahh. Its a stylistic thing. I'm not interested in defensive battles
(much tho I like them in cricket or snooker). Combat is deliberately
intended to be both unstable and unpredictable. I don't want
artificial (if obvious) balances interjected into that otherwise
>> -- Combat state is declared for both target and source.
> We just create an entry in a data table for each combat, attacker
> and defender. We create as separate entry for each combat so if
> BUBBA fights three hobbits, three events are spawned. If Hobbit 1
> decides to flee, that event is closed out. If #1 decides to join
> BUBBA and attack his former buddies, cool. Their combat event is
> closed and new ones created.
This gets *really* messy for melees. What happens when 5,000
screaming Orcs boil out of the ground and engage your 500 typo-matic
players?
>> -- Combat state's only effect is to enforce timings of actions. It
>> takes XXX time to swing a sword, YYY time to cast a spell etc.
> Because I can't control time (stateless, you know), we use action
> points. (BTW, an action can take so many points it takes three (or
> more) rounds to fire.) This frees the players from the twitch
> factor. It also creates a more leisurely (some would say slow)
> combat feel.
<ponder>
> (I have a huge, somewhat incoherent post on a combat system started
> on my workstation at work. I should be able to poach enough time to
> post it next week sometime. It could even be coherent by then...It
> references a lot of past posts and might even be interesting.)
Excellant!
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@null.net
(Contractor) Internet: coder@ibm.net
---------(*) Internet: claw@under.engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
--
MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.
- Leaving characters in play Travis S. Casey
- Leaving characters in play J C Lawrence
- Leaving characters in play D. B. Brown
- Leaving characters in play Travis S. Casey
- Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Leaving characters in play Jon A. Lambert
- Leaving characters in play s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Leaving characters in play Ben Greear
- Request "unsubscribe calvin@orinconhi.com mud-dev" Petidomo Mailing List Server
- Natural Language Processing (NLP) Shawn Halpenny
- Is There a There in Cyberspace? J C Lawrence
- Is There a There in Cyberspace? Jon A. Lambert
- Is There a There in Cyberspace? J C Lawrence
- [OT] Web Pages Jon A. Lambert
- AR Mining System John Bertoglio
- AR Mining System Oliver Jowett
- AR Mining System John Bertoglio
- mudschools Mike Sellers
- Using HTML for a Mud character generator Travis S. Casey
- Character creation, was: Mudschool Richard Woolcock
- Character creation, was: Mudschool Jon A. Lambert
- Onchat -- Java based chat room. J C Lawrence
- A short introduction of a (quite) long-time lurker Per Vognsen
- [MUD-Dev]World Size and The "Hot House" Factor Was PK and my "Mobless MUD" idea John Bertoglio
- mudschools jacob langthorn
- world concept jacob langthorn
- world concept Jo Dillon
- world concept J C Lawrence
- world concept Holly Sommer
- world concept jacob langthorn
- OT: Java multithreading performance Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading performance Ben Greear
- OT: Java multithreading performance Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading performance Chris Gray
- OT: Java multithreading performance Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading performance Chris Gray
- OT: Java multithreading performance Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading performance Chris Gray
- OT: Java multithreading performance Ben Greear
- OT: Java multithreading performance Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading performance Chris Gray
- OT: Java multithreading performance Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading performance J C Lawrence
- META: Lost messages J C Lawrence
- Titanic's demise (was MURKLE: Wot it is) Mike Sellers
- Titanic's demise (was MURKLE: Wot it is) Koster, Raph
- mudschools jacob langthorn
- mudschools Marian Griffith
- mudschools Mike Sellers
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- mudschools Robert Woods
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- MUD Schools Adam Casbarian
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- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Orion Henry
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Oliver Jowett
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Orion Henry
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Oliver Jowett
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play D. B. Brown
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Orion Henry
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play J C Lawrence
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- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Travis S. Casey
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Travis S. Casey
- Combat Was Leaving characters in play Adam Wiggins
- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams J C Lawrence
- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams T. Alexander Popiel
- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams J C Lawrence
- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams John Bertoglio
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- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams John Bertoglio
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- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams Caliban Tiresias Darklock
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- Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams John Bertoglio
- Java multithreading test source Vadim Tkachenko
- Java multithreading test source J C Lawrence
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- Mud Tales John Bertoglio
- Nested coorindate space model J C Lawrence
- Nested coorindate space model Ling
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- Nested coorindate space model Ling
- Nested coorindate space model Michael Hohensee
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- Nested coorindate space model Michael Hohensee
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- Nested coorindate space model Benjamin D. Wiechel
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- Now For Something Completely Different: PK with style John Bertoglio
- Sex in Games -- ya gotta, um, yeah J C Lawrence
- Combat in the Abandoned Realms John Bertoglio
- A Metaphysics System s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- META: New list features J C Lawrence
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Mike Sellers
- OT: Java multithreading test source Ben Greear
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Ben Greear
- OT: Java multithreading test source John Bertoglio
- OT: Java multithreading test source Vadim Tkachenko
- OT: Java multithreading test source Jon A. Lambert
- OT: Java multithreading test source Ben Greear
- Plug: Got my java client to work using the java-plugin. Ben Greear
- UO's rep system, was: CGDC Koster, Raph
- UO's rep system, was: CGDC J C Lawrence
- BIAP Chat/Chat Pro (fwd) Nathan F Yospe
- BIAP Chat/Chat Pro (fwd) Holly Sommer
- Tutorial for Multi-User Environments Niklas Elmqvist
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- skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
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- skill system Richard Woolcock
- skill system Adam Wiggins
- skill system Richard Woolcock
- skill system J C Lawrence
- skill system s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
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- skill system John Bertoglio