December 1998
- Hex-grid mapping Matthew R. Sheahan
- Hex-grid mapping Jon Leonard
- Hex-grid mapping James Wilson
- Hex-grid mapping Jon Leonard
- Hex-grid mapping James Wilson
- Hex-grid mapping Par Winzell
- Hex-grid mapping quzah [sotfhome]
- Hex-grid mapping Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping Ling
- Hex-grid mapping Jon A. Lambert
- Hex-grid mapping Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping Alberto Barsella
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Pericolo DiMorte
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) quzah [sotfhome]
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Pericolo DiMorte
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) James Wilson
- ADMIN: Personalities... J C Lawrence
- Hex-grid mapping (fwd) Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Electric Communities' E Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Electric Communities' E Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- mud client development systems greear@cyberhighway.net
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Benjamin D. Wiechel
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems J C Lawrence
- mud client development systems Per Vognsen
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Scatter
- mud client development systems Per Vognsen
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- mud client development systems Jon Leonard
- mud client development systems Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- Stack-Based NPC AI Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Stack-Based NPC AI Mark Gritter
- Stack-Based NPC AI Marc Hernandez
- Stack-Based NPC AI Richard Woolcock
- Stack-Based NPC AI Par Winzell
- Stack-Based NPC AI David Bennett
- Stack-Based NPC AI Mik Clarke
- Stack-Based NPC AI Felix A. Croes
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Introduction Adam J. Thornton
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Introduction ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Thought Treasure Adam Wiggins
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Nathan F Yospe
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Adam Wiggins
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) greear@cyberhighway.net
- Error tolerant UDP data streams J C Lawrence
- Error tolerant UDP data streams James Wilson
- Error tolerant UDP data streams J C Lawrence
- Error tolerant UDP data streams Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: (IMPORTNANT) Server down time and possible service interruption J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Error tolerant UDP data streams Darren Henderson
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) Benjamin D. Wiechel
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) Michael Willey
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Ling
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis S. Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc (long) Marian Griffith
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Sunny Gulati
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Benjamin D. Wiechel
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Hex grids. quzah [softhome]
- small dev-mud invite Chris Gray
- small dev-mud invite J C Lawrence
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Jay Carlson
- mud client development systems J C Lawrence
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Jon Leonard
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Mik Clarke
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Alex Oren
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Dan Shiovitz
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Mik Clarke
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Greg Connor
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- Graphic design, client questions Thinus Barnard
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions Jo Dillon
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions Jo Dillon
- Graphic design, client questions Thinus Barnard
- Graphic design, client questions Sunny Gulati
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions Jay Carlson
- Graphic design, client questions Ben Greear
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-to-Peer Koster, Raph
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-to-Peer Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-t o-Peer Koster, Raph
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-t o-Peer J C Lawrence
- More Laws Niklas Elmqvist
- More Laws J C Lawrence
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Michael Willey
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Sunny Gulati
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) quzah [softhome]
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) David Bennett
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) quzah [softhome]
- Some useful links Niklas Elmqvist
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) Chris Gray
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) J C Lawrence
- example custom protocol and its uses Chris Gray
- client stuff... Andrew Wilson
- Developing a MUD for the first time? Alex Oren
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module T. Alexander Popiel
- [DevMUD] Database module Jay Carlson
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module Felix A. Croes
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [RRE]AAAI 1999 Fall Symposium: Narrative Intelligence Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- (fwd) DESIGN: Proposed topic of Discussion (Injecting Pure Signal) J C Lawrence
- Terragen Vadim Tkachenko
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Bobby Bailey
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Robin Carey
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Bobby Bailey
- META: 1998 Topic Summary Jon A. Lambert
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.02a Bobby Bailey
- ADMIN: New text formatting rule for MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- More Laws Jon A. Lambert
- More Laws Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc - Combat Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat cynbe@muq.org
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat quzah [softhome]
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat quzah [softhome]
- MUD Design doc - Combat Dr. Cat
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat James Wilson
- MUD Design doc - Combat Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc - Combat James Wilson
- MUD Design doc - Combat Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc - Combat diablo@best.com
- MUD Design doc - Combat Kristen Koster
- MUD Design doc - Combat Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc - Combat Scatter
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Kristen Koster
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Till Eulenspiegel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Travis Casey
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Ling
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Till Eulenspiegel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Justin Robinson
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Alex Oren
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Matt Wallace
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Holly Sommer
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Matt Wallace
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. D. B. Brown
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Vladimir Prelovac
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Nathan F Yospe
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Jon A. Lambert
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Travis S. Casey
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:35 -0600
Koster, Raph<rkoster@origin.ea.com> wrote:
>> From: Marian Griffith
>> You could of course put the ladder on quicksand. A special type
>> of quicksand that sinks faster the higher you climb the ladder.
>> In this way you can easily stay out of the bog but climbing to
>> fame means you have to work hard at it, and keep working hard.
>> As soon as you stop working then you sink back into anonymity,
>> fast at first but increas- ingly slower after a while.
> EG, "atrophy." Unfortunately, players tend to react very
> negatively to it. I haven't heard of a better way to handle the
> problem yet, though.
This is really an exercise in economics and the old Bartle/Lawrie
argument on endless growth and permadeath. Their argument was based
on the premise that without permadeath any player, even the mortally
incompetent and boring (the worst sin) can make wizard by merely
persisting for long enough. A simple examination reveals the
economics underpinning: there is no deflation.
Without atrophy (deflation), there is only endless inflation (the
descreasing value of the advancement). Once someone is level 10,
what is the value left in levels 1 thru 9?
There are two approaches:
1) Keep growing the game so that there is always room for the
inflationary sprial to grow into. This means that the requirements
for the top levels of advancement must recede (become more
difficult) for the base player base at the same rate that the base
player base approaches them.
2) Something must devalue accumulated value (levels etc) such that
players ever fall down the ladder and thus retain something to
climb.
Comments on zero-sum games etc are apt and welcome.
The problem with both of course is that they are demoralising.
There is no winning, you can only stand still or fall behind. We
can cover up this flaw in #1 by repainting it as "re-inventing" or
other cute terms. The principle remains the same however, the game
is regeared to put everybody back at ground zero -- just without
making them feel that they've lost in the process (concentrate on
the new race/game instead of what is lost).
The problem from a game design viewpoint is that #2 is horribly
expensive. It means that you can't just put a game on maintenance,
but you have to actually re-write and re-design and re-do the whole
damn thing with fair frequency, and sooner or later you are going to
get caught with your pants down, stumble, fall, and wipe out. This
is not just newer graphics and other presentation touches ("Quake
is, Like, DOOM, but bloodier!), but real game creation -- that
horribly messy and unpredictable practice or braintrust.
What's the key problem? The very concept of the advancement scale.
It just doesn't work over the long term. It is an evolutionary dead
end. Why? Because you can't maintain the process that drives the
advancement scale. No matter how hard you try to make and keep the
game open ended (which is really what I am talking about), sooner or
later, and likely far sooner than later, burnout beckons. You
*have* to divert to softer more organic realms where
non-deterministic development is more important than direct
comparison and ranking and linear genetalia measuring is no longer
your stock in trade.
Even then atrophy isn't really a solution. All it really does is
make the scale longer. Now, instead of being able to climb from 1
to 100 in simple fashion, you're now walking uphill against
"atrophy".
Take a typical combat MUD. You play, and finally ascend all the
levels to wizard. What is next? This is a problem. Linear
advancement scales just don't scale. You can hide the problem by
making lots of ladders (one for mages, one for warriors, one for
stamp collectors, etc), but that merely clouds the problem. It
doesn't remove it.
<sigh>
Expressive fertility seems like the real key here. Have a look at
the Walled City in Gibson's Idoru. Look at the general handling of
virtual reality in the same book. There's a *LOT* of careful,
detailed, highly imaginative and really really engrossing (to the
people who created those things) expresiveness in there. look at
the construction and details of the shrine/hut (I'm working on
memory here) where she first meat the Japanese fan club contingent.
Advancement scales are fun. That's great, but you have to get
people off that bandwagon and into more interesting and less
deterministic affairs before they realise that the ladder ends and
that there is nowhere to go from there. You have to distract them,
get them enmeshed in talking, role playing, coding cute objects,
holding Egg parties, or otherwise goofing off.
How to do that? Make things other than advancement more and more
enticing. You don't want it (non-advancement) TOO enticing too
quickly, as the presence of the scale is important. It gets people
playing the game and knowledgable about the game and game world.
So, the levels scale is the bait, the expressive fertility is the
hook, and the instant they step off the advancement scale, the hook
can be set.
End rant, at least until I get a chance to muse on this some more
(the advantages of a 50+ mile commute).
Harrumph.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@kanga.nu
(Contractor) Internet: coder@kanga.nu
---------(*) Internet: claw@under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Petri Virkkula