December 1998
- Hex-grid mapping Matthew R. Sheahan
- Hex-grid mapping Jon Leonard
- Hex-grid mapping James Wilson
- Hex-grid mapping Jon Leonard
- Hex-grid mapping James Wilson
- Hex-grid mapping Par Winzell
- Hex-grid mapping quzah [sotfhome]
- Hex-grid mapping Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping Ling
- Hex-grid mapping Jon A. Lambert
- Hex-grid mapping Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping Alberto Barsella
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Pericolo DiMorte
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) quzah [sotfhome]
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) Pericolo DiMorte
- Hex-grid mapping (example from PSL empire) James Wilson
- ADMIN: Personalities... J C Lawrence
- Hex-grid mapping (fwd) Nathan F Yospe
- Hex-grid mapping (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Electric Communities' E Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Electric Communities' E Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- mud client development systems greear@cyberhighway.net
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Benjamin D. Wiechel
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems J C Lawrence
- mud client development systems Per Vognsen
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Scatter
- mud client development systems Per Vognsen
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- mud client development systems Jon Leonard
- mud client development systems Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Chris Gray
- Stack-Based NPC AI Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Stack-Based NPC AI Mark Gritter
- Stack-Based NPC AI Marc Hernandez
- Stack-Based NPC AI Richard Woolcock
- Stack-Based NPC AI Par Winzell
- Stack-Based NPC AI David Bennett
- Stack-Based NPC AI Mik Clarke
- Stack-Based NPC AI Felix A. Croes
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Introduction Adam J. Thornton
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Introduction ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Introduction Mik Clarke
- Thought Treasure Adam Wiggins
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Nathan F Yospe
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Adam Wiggins
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd) greear@cyberhighway.net
- Error tolerant UDP data streams J C Lawrence
- Error tolerant UDP data streams James Wilson
- Error tolerant UDP data streams J C Lawrence
- Error tolerant UDP data streams Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- ADMIN: (IMPORTNANT) Server down time and possible service interruption J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Error tolerant UDP data streams Darren Henderson
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) Benjamin D. Wiechel
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) Michael Willey
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc (long) Thinus Barnard
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Ling
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Travis S. Casey
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc (long) Marian Griffith
- MUD Design doc (long) Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Sunny Gulati
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Benjamin D. Wiechel
- MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc (long) Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Emil Eifrem
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Mik Clarke
- MUD Design doc (long) Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Hex grids. quzah [softhome]
- small dev-mud invite Chris Gray
- small dev-mud invite J C Lawrence
- mud client development systems Sunny Gulati
- mud client development systems Jay Carlson
- mud client development systems J C Lawrence
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Jon Leonard
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Mik Clarke
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Alex Oren
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Dan Shiovitz
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Mik Clarke
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... Greg Connor
- AFAP: As fast as possible, non linear... quzah [softhome]
- Graphic design, client questions Thinus Barnard
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions Jo Dillon
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Dillon <emily@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk>
To: mud-dev@kanga.nu <mud-dev@kanga.nu>
Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 10:03 AM
Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Graphic design, client questions
>Caliban Tiresias Darklock (caliban@darklock.com) spake thusly:
>>
>> Not really. HTTP is run over a telnet connection. (Really, it is. So is
FTP.
>> So is IRC. Damn near every major protocol on the 'net is founded on
telnet.
>> Telnet *is* the internet.)
>
> Hmm. a) surely you mean TCP/IP? Telnet is a protocol on top of TCP/IP;
>it just so happens that you can use a telnet client to talk to ftp,
>http and so forth servers, but that doesn't mean they really speak telnet.
They don't speak the options, certainly, but they do run over a telnet
connection. While I have not read *all* of the RFCs in question, and don't
feel like looking them up to confirm exactly where and what they explicitly
say, many of them (I am tempted to say all, but I have to admit the
possibility that one or more of them does not explicitly say this) actually
say up front that they are constructed over a telnet connection -- with all
the IAC negotiation that implies.
Conversely, most MUD servers and clients say they run on telnet when they
don't. They shit little green apples if you try to negotiate options, when
they OUGHT to at least deny the request.
So basically, what I'm saying is that a lot of things that are running on
telnet connections don't say they are, and a lot of things that aren't do. I
*know* FTP and IRC say "telnet" right in the RFC. I am reasonably sure HTTP
does, as well, but I haven't been able to find it in a vgrep.
>b) What about the bits of the net that talk UDP? NFS, Sun RPC (which
>NFS is based on) and so forth?
They're certainly significant, but they're still just bits. ;)
Seriously, boiling the internet down to one protocol is an exercise in
futility. There are always significant parts which don't fit into that
reduction. This is one of them. We certainly can't just chuck UDP out the
window, but we can rather safely ignore it in many cases. Not all. Certainly
not all.
>> Most clients operate in line mode, or even multiple line mode. Using "raw
>> telnet" is considered a rough equivalent to the tortures of hell by most
MUD
>> players.
>
> Of course, the Windows 95 Telnet client only does character mode (at
least
>as far as I can discern)...
Yep, that's true. Typing "telnet" at the prompt of just about any major
operating system gets you a raw character mode connection until you specify
otherwise; on UNIX systems, this is usually an option, while on Windows you
have to go get a better client. Nobody has ever accused Windows of having
really cool built-in apps. According to the DOJ, if Windows *had* really
cool built-in apps, that would be an anti-competitive practice anyway.
> Why not write a cross-platform client in something like wxWindows?
I am not a fan of cross-platform, but this is basically prejudice. A user
interface guru once said that if you want a Windows app, build a Windows
app, and Windows users will like it. If you want a Mac app, build a Mac app,
and Mac users will like it. If you try to do both at once, you will really
not be doing either, and it will just make both groups unhappy.
Adobe has sort of blown this argument away with PhotoShop (which looks and
acts very much the same on both Windows and Mac platforms), but there are
other considerations there which MUD developers can't normally take
advantage of. Like a tremendous installed base of users who *want* the exact
same thing on all platforms, the distinction of being THE household name of
the industry, and a lot of users who never use any other application in the
first place.
> Java is /easier/ to set up as an applet.
But you have to set it up *every* time, because you never know if the user
has set it up before. You could use a cookie, but cookies are supposed to be
Bad for some reason which always escapes me. And besides, users can refuse
or delete or modify cookies. ;)
I'm tempted to get into a language war here, because I absolutely hate Java.
But instead, I'll allow that it may not be a *total* piece of garbage -- I
just don't find that it suits my needs, ever. As a developer, as a user, it
doesn't matter. Java has never been a reliable or acceptable solution for a
native app in my experience. YMMV.
| Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com
| Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/
| U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D
| 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -ÊBAL::3146=- - Graphic design, client questions Jo Dillon
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions Thinus Barnard
- Graphic design, client questions Sunny Gulati
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions J C Lawrence
- Graphic design, client questions Jay Carlson
- Graphic design, client questions Ben Greear
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-to-Peer Koster, Raph
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-to-Peer Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-t o-Peer Koster, Raph
- More Laws, was DIS: Client-Server vs Peer-t o-Peer J C Lawrence
- More Laws Niklas Elmqvist
- More Laws J C Lawrence
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Michael Willey
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Adam Wiggins
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Sunny Gulati
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) quzah [softhome]
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) David Bennett
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) quzah [softhome]
- Some useful links Niklas Elmqvist
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) Chris Gray
- Response (Was MUD Design doc (long)) J C Lawrence
- example custom protocol and its uses Chris Gray
- client stuff... Andrew Wilson
- Developing a MUD for the first time? Alex Oren
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module T. Alexander Popiel
- [DevMUD] Database module Jay Carlson
- [DevMUD] Database module cynbe@muq.org
- [DevMUD] Database module Felix A. Croes
- Re[2]:MUD Design doc (long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [RRE]AAAI 1999 Fall Symposium: Narrative Intelligence Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- (fwd) DESIGN: Proposed topic of Discussion (Injecting Pure Signal) J C Lawrence
- Terragen Vadim Tkachenko
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Bobby Bailey
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Robin Carey
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.01a Bobby Bailey
- META: 1998 Topic Summary Jon A. Lambert
- [RELEASE] Insanity To Infinity (I:I_OS) v.02a Bobby Bailey
- ADMIN: New text formatting rule for MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- More Laws Jon A. Lambert
- More Laws Travis Casey
- MUD Design doc - Combat Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat cynbe@muq.org
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat quzah [softhome]
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat quzah [softhome]
- MUD Design doc - Combat Dr. Cat
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat J C Lawrence
- MUD Design doc - Combat James Wilson
- MUD Design doc - Combat Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc - Combat James Wilson
- MUD Design doc - Combat Nathan F Yospe
- MUD Design doc - Combat diablo@best.com
- MUD Design doc - Combat Kristen Koster
- MUD Design doc - Combat Chris Gray
- MUD Design doc - Combat Scatter
- MUD Design doc - Combat Koster, Raph
- MUD Design doc - Combat Kristen Koster
- MUD Design doc - Combat Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design doc - Combat T. Alexander Popiel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Till Eulenspiegel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Travis Casey
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Ling
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Till Eulenspiegel
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Justin Robinson
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Alex Oren
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Matt Wallace
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Andy Cink
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Koster, Raph
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Holly Sommer
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Adam Wiggins
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Matt Wallace
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. D. B. Brown
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Mik Clarke
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Vladimir Prelovac
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Nathan F Yospe
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Jon A. Lambert
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Travis S. Casey
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. Petri Virkkula