October 1998
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Brandon J. Rickman
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room de scriptions) Koster, Raph
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Travis S. Casey
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Roomdescriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room de scriptions) Koster, Raph
- simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction James Wilson
- simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction ApplePiMan@aol.com
- simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction James Wilson
- simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction ApplePiMan@aol.com
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Richard Woolcock
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Marian Griffith
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Robert Woods
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Marc Hernandez
- Quest engines Koster, Raph
- Quest engines ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Quest engines Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Quest engines Hal Black
- [Off-Topic] Patents (Was Storytelling vs. Simulationist) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Psychopaths Koster, Raph
- Storytelling patents (Storytelling vs. Simulationist) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Koster, Raph
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Richard Bartle
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Richard Bartle
- Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Adam Wiggins
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Chris Gray
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Hal Black
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP John Bertoglio
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Petri Virkkula
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Niklas Elmqvist
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Marc Hernandez
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Chris Gray
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
- Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Dominic J. Eidson
- Current Projects Alex Stewart
- Current Projects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Current Projects Robert Woods
- Current Projects James Wilson
- Current Projects Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Current Projects Robert Woods
- Current Projects T. Alexander Popiel
- Current Projects Travis S. Casey
- Current Projects Joel Kelso
- Current Projects The Arrow
- Current Projects Ryan Prince
- Current Projects Wilburn, E.J.
- Current Projects Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Current Projects David Bennett
- Current Projects chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
- Current Projects Andrew Wilson
- Current Projects Holly Sommer
- Current Projects Scatter
- Current Projects Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Current Projects Niklas Elmqvist
- Red Black Tree ? Valerio Santinelli
- Red Black Tree ? T. Alexander Popiel
- Red Black Tree ? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Red Black Tree ? T. Alexander Popiel
- Red Black Tree ? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Red Black Tree ? Ben Greear
- MUVE vs. MUD [was Current Projects] Alex Stewart
- Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
- Laws of Online World Design Jon A. Lambert
- Laws of Online World Design Ling
- Laws of Online World Design Adam Wiggins
- Laws of Online World Design Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Laws of Online World Design manta@pobox.com
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design James Wilson
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
- Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design Darrin Hyrup
- Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
- Laws of Online World Design Darrin Hyrup
- Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
- Laws of Online World Design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
- Laws of Online World Design Richard Bartle
- Laws of Online World Design Richard Bartle
- Laws of Online World Design Vadim Tkachenko
- MUVE vs. MUD [was Current Projects] Richard Bartle
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Ling
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Chris Gray
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Benjamin D. Wiechel
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Ling
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section J C Lawrence
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Adam Wiggins
- META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Advance book review Koster, Raph
- (CDMag) Sosaria Cracked: Why OSI's great social experiment is doomed J C Lawrence
- Ethics & Identity Scatter
- DNS adventure J C Lawrence
- DNS adventure Chris Gray
- DNS adventure Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- DNS adventure Adam J. Thornton
- DNS adventure Vadim Tkachenko
- DNS adventure J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) mark@erdos.Stanford.EDU
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Hal Black
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Adam J. Thornton
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Marc Hernandez
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Wilburn, E.J.
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Jon Leonard
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Steve Sparks
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Steve Sparks
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
- A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environment Brandon A Downey
- A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environment J C Lawrence
- A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environme nt Koster, Raph
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Chris Gray
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Wilburn, E.J.
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) J C Lawrence
- [Tech] socket slowdown solved Chris Gray
- [Tech] socket slowdown solved J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Chris Gray
- Network float format (RFC 1014) J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Koster, Raph
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Elis Pomales
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Darrin Hyrup
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Darrin Hyrup
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Niklas Elmqvist
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Wilburn, E.J.
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Niklas Elmqvist
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Joel Kelso
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Marc Hernandez
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Adam J. Thornton
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Marc Hernandez
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals ApplePiMan@aol.com
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Adam J. Thornton
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
- OT: TTYQuake Niklas Elmqvist
- OT: TTYQuake Adam Wiggins
- OT: TTYQuake Adam J. Thornton
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Matthew R. Sheahan
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Vadim Tkachenko
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World J C Lawrence
- FW: Book? Koster, Raph
- GameStorm Matthew R. Sheahan
- GameStorm J C Lawrence
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Jon A. Lambert
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) quzah [sotfhome]
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
- Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) J C Lawrence
- Lengthy Palace study Koster, Raph
- Hacks/Diablo/etc (was: Trusting the quzah [sotfhome]
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Hal Black
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
- Recursive look Ling
- Recursive look Holly Sommer
- Recursive look David Bennett
- Recursive look J C Lawrence
- Recursive look Marc Hernandez
- Recursive look Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Recursive look Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Recursive look The Wildman
- Recursive look Adam Wiggins
- Recursive look Koster, Raph
- Recursive look Ling
- Recursive look Adam Wiggins
- Recursive look Marian Griffith
- Recursive look Brandon J. Rickman
- Recursive look Marian Griffith
- Recursive look Brandon J. Rickman
- Recursive look Marian Griffith
- Recursive look Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Recursive look Nathan F Yospe
- Recursive look Darrin Hyrup
- Recursive look Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Recursive look Jon A. Lambert
- Recursive look Matthew R. Sheahan
- Recursive look Nathan F Yospe
- Recursive look Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- Recursive look Chris Gray
- Recursive look Chris Gray
- evil - good realism Vladimir Prelovac
- evil - good realism S. Patrick Gallaty
- evil - good realism Adam Wiggins
- evil - good realism Wilburn, E.J.
- evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
- evil - good realism Jon A. Lambert
- evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
- evil - good realism Orion Henry
- evil - good realism Vadim Tkachenko
- evil - good realism J C Lawrence
- evil - good realism Chris Gray
- evil - good realism Brandon A Downey
- evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
- evil - good realism Vladimir Prelovac
- evil - good realism Vadim Tkachenko
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Hal Black
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Felix A. Croes
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
- PDMud thread summary Hal Black
- PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
- PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary The Arrow
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary Steve Sparks
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
- PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
- PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary James Wilson
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary James Wilson
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary James Wilson
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
- PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
- PDMud thread summary Holly Sommer
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Adam Wiggins
- PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
- PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
- PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
- ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- DevMUD Event Language Hal Black
- DevMUD Event Language Jon Leonard
- DevMUD Event Language J C Lawrence
- DevMUD Event Language James Wilson
- DevMUD Event Language J C Lawrence
- DevMUD Event Language Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) J C Lawrence
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) James Wilson
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Jon Leonard
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta ) Koster, Raph
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta ) Marc Hernandez
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Adam J. Thornton
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Adam Wiggins
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Game Developers Conference Koster, Raph
- Crack.Com deceased Marc Hernandez
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Koster, Raph
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Jon Leonard
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Nathan F Yospe
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Jon Leonard
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Koster, Raph
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Steve Sparks
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Adam Wiggins
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Chris Gray
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Adam Wiggins
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
- OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Petri Virkkula
- Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released , (sorta) Holly Sommer
- OT: slashdot Adam Wiggins
- OT: slashdot J C Lawrence
- OT: slashdot J C Lawrence
- Language support Koster, Raph
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Jon Leonard
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Adam J. Thornton
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah ApplePiMan@aol.com
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Chris Gray
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Darrin Hyrup
- PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
- UO: Second Age Koster, Raph
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
- PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Golgotha as it applies to PDMud (was Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source , released (sorta)) Niklas Elmqvist
- OpenMUD: bus-based communications James Wilson
- OpenMUD: bus-based communications Chris Gray
- OpenMUD: bus-based communications Niklas Elmqvist
- OpenMUD: bus-based communications Niklas Elmqvist
- OpenMUD: bus-based communications ApplePiMan@aol.com
- I wanna do it OO James Wilson
- I wanna do it OO Chris Gray
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 James Wilson
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 James Wilson
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 Niklas Elmqvist
- DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
- CVS and LXR bruce@portland.puremagic.com
- openmud or pdmud or devmud James Wilson
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Chris Gray
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Darrin Hyrup
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Hal Black
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Jon Leonard
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Adam J. Thornton
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- openmud or pdmud or devmud Adam J. Thornton
- openmud: open issues James Wilson
- openmud: open issues Vadim Tkachenko
- openmud: open issues James Wilson
- openmud: open issues Vadim Tkachenko
- MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Chris Gray
- MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Adam J. Thornton
- MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) The Arrow
- MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Jon Leonard
- MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Niklas Elmqvist
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Jon A. Lambert
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Niklas Elmqvist
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Darrin Hyrup
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Chris Gray
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Chris Gray
- DevMUD module configuration Jon Leonard
- DevMUD module configuration James Wilson
- DevMUD module configuration Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- DevMUD module configuration J C Lawrence
- DevMUD module configuration Chris Gray
- DevMUD module configuration Niklas Elmqvist
- DevMUD module configuration Vadim Tkachenko
- Inheritance model (was PDMud thread summary) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Inheritance model (was PDMud thread summary) Cynbe ru Taren
- Why did it take years? Cynbe ru Taren
- Why did it take years? Adam Wiggins
On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Cynbe ru Taren wrote:
> Ola Fosheim <olag@ifi.uio.no> asks:
> | Yes, and that leads to another question, why did it take years?
>
> Which is a very fair question.
And has been asked many a time before. No one, even other programmers,
seem to realize the amount of time and effort that goes into a release
product, even if the product isn't especially groundbreaking.
> * A typical industry estimate seems to be 20 lines of code per
> day per programmer:
Wow! I had no idea how efficient I am! I write at *least* 30 lines
of code per day! :)
> bnm.t 5140 Big integers.
I presume this is BigNum stuff, eg an arbitrarily sized array of
integers which can be operated on as one big number.
Why do you need this for Muq, might I ask?
> job.t 33893 Implementations of various bytecodes.
Internal language is always a big one. This is probably why
stock diku manages to do lots of stuff with pretty line-inefficient
code, and still end up a lean 30k lines or so. No internal language.
> As Fred Brooks comments in the Mythical Man Month, it's the tarpit
> that gets to you: It's not that any one part is hard, but that you
> have to do -all- of them...
Yes! The main thing that seems to happen on a project that drags it
down is *not* people not working. It's failing to account for the
sheer amount of /stuff/ that goes into a usable product.
A simple task breakdown can show where all your time goes, but at the
end you're still left wondering, "Gee, why did that take so long?"
For example, let's say Bubba writes an RFC-compliant telnet module
in one month (in his spare time). Seem reasonable? Okay, then
he takes another month to do the basic world DB. Another month does
characters. Another month does rooms, and basic character motion.
Another month to do socials. Another month to do object interaction
and equipment (wear/wield/..). Another month to do immortal commands.
Another month to do experience, gold, and levels. Another month to
do zones and reset/repop. Another month to do some basic skills.
Another month to do some basic spells. A last month to beta test.
Congradulations, Bubba! You've just spent a year of your life writing
a really bare-bones version of CircleMUD.
Was Bubba not being productive, not working hard enough? Hardly.
By all accounts, if he did all of the above in his spare time, he
worked very fast and very efficiently. So why, after investing a year
of his life, is he left with something most of us would scoff at (and
it's still not playable, there's no areas!).
Moral: it takes a long time to do anything like this. It takes a REALLY
long time to do anything *good*. This is assuming, of course, that nothing
really bad happens along the way to slow you down...
> Muq total: 200,000 lines
Sounds reasonable.
Does this include your world, eg rooms and mobiles and whatnot?
There's more than 'pure' source to a game.
> DevMUD seems to me to be contemplating addressing a fair number of
> difficult problems which Muq does not: With Muq, I've deliberately
> tried to avoid doing anything terribly exotic, in favor of shipping
> something solid relatively soon: If using Muq as an estimation base,
> you may want to add (say) a *2 multiplier on for extra code required,
> and another *2 for extra coding effort to break new ground rather than
> following pretty familiar coding trails? If so, that would put you at
> about 24 person-years to completion, it would seem, assuming no time
> lost to defections or bickering.
My guess it that the first release of DevMUD will be pretty bad as a mud
goes (ie, very few commands and whatnot). The idea being that from *there*,
someone could take it and turn it into a real, playable game. Making a good
engine is not the same task as making a good game.
> (PS: I did a quick count of the number of source lines in
> Golgotha: About 250,000.
I quick wc -l on *.{cc,hh} shows 194976 total lines.
The breakdown is like so:
2500 lines for their make tool.
8000 lines of max tools and plugins (don't get me started about
this - I've had to write more plugins to fix bugs in 3dsmax
in the past few years than I care to recall)
25000 lines of render code (includes dx5 and glide support)
6500 lines of test (example) programs
Their 'i4' library - utilities used by the game (86k total):
30000 lines (!) of loaders, most of which is jpg and mp3
11000 lines of internal widget library
11000 lines of FMV display (includes versions for Glide, the Saturn,
Mac sprokets, Win32, OpenGL, Linux svgalib, and X11)
5000 lines of lisp interpreter/compiler
4000 lines of sound code (supports both directsound and /dev/audio)
4500 lines of "device" code (mouse, keyboard, system timer, etc)
4500 lines of file access code (mac, win32, Linux, Saturn)
700 lines of threading code (Linux, Saturn, win32)
1700 lines of string code
2000 lines of memory management
2000 lines of math (angle, vector, matrix, spline..)
~10000 lines of other random stuff including quantization, status control,
error logging, checksum, compression, dll control, font draw, etc
The actual game itself (68k total):
13000 for the editor
23000 for game objects (specific vehicles, weapons, effects, props..)
32000 for everything else, including maps, levels, character states,
frontend, savegames, networking, control, etc etc etc
It seems to me that much of i4 is superfluous. I hate full motion
video anyways, so I'd be more than happy to chop 40k lines of mp3
playback code. Other than that it's all pretty important stuff,
so 46k of just client libraries seems reasonable.
As for the game itself - it's hard to judge. A client is a little different
from a full-fledged game in that it probably doesn't need quite as much
stuff. Rather than simulating the game world, it only has to respond to
commands from the server about what to put on the screen, and where.
Still, I'd guess that other than the FMV stuff, the max tools, and
the test crap, you need everything else in the client. That's
40k for the i4, 25k for the renderer, and (let's say) 35k for the
game. 100k lines of code, which sounds about right.
Revenant (at least at the time I left Cinematix) was already 100,000
lines of code, not counting support stuff (including 3dsmax plugins,
resource compilers, and other assorted crap). I wrote most of
that code in the space of 1.5 years of very hard work. (To be fair,
about 20,000 lines of it was assembly language, which racks up
the line count VERY quickly since each single line does a whole lot less.)
Even so, it was still missing a lot of major game framework stuff.
And it was FAR from a robust game; the physics and object interactions
were very basic, the skills and spells not well fleshed out, and the
network code was nonexistent (but planned "real soon now").
> On a quick scan, I see very little overlap between what the Muq
> server does and what Golgotha does, so if you want an all-out
> programmable distributed multimedia virtual world server/client, a
> good quick estimate come from summing them: About 350,000 lines of
> hardcode source and 500,000 total lines by the time you have a really
> impressive softcode layer on top of it.
Yes, which makes stealing Golgotha as the client very attractive.
Obviously a lot of work needs to be done with it, but this could
actually be a seperate project from the server. Also, the code
seems quite well written and organized, but unfortunately
they insist on a naming sceme that drives me crazy - all lower case,
tons of underscores, and "_class" tacked onto the end of every
class name.
> This is starting to approach the megaline barrier at which even
> well-funded efforts run by experienced professionals start seeing
> about a 50% failure rate, no...? Time for a thoughtful pause. :)
Well look at it this way - the other choice is to a) write another
LP clone or b) not do it. I think an ambitious, but eventually
unsuccessful project would be more fun than either of these.
Of course, you don't see me jumping up to volunteer just yet, now
do you...:)
Adam W. - Why did it take years? James Wilson
- Why did it take years? Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Why did it take years? Niklas Elmqvist
- Why did it take years? Holly Sommer
- Why did it take years? J C Lawrence
- Why did it take years? Jo Dillon
- Why did it take years? Adam Wiggins
- Why did it take years? Cynbe ru Taren
- Why did it take years? J C Lawrence
- Why did it take years? Adam Wiggins
- Why did it take years? Chris Gray
- Why did it take years? Erik Ostrom
- Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd) Niklas Elmqvist
- Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd) Niklas Elmqvist
- resource management (was: Missing the point) Felix A. Croes
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Niklas Elmqvist
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Niklas Elmqvist
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Robert Brady
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules J C Lawrence
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Darrin Hyrup
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Adam J. Thornton
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Cynbe ru Taren
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Vadim Tkachenko
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Adam J. Thornton
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Thandor
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Thandor
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
- DevMUD: Inheritable modules J C Lawrence
- [DevMUD] driver implementation language Hal Black
- META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security J C Lawrence
- META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security Jon Leonard
- META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security James Wilson
- DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
- DevMUD Objectives? Koster, Raph
- DevMUD Objectives? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- DevMUD Objectives? Petri Virkkula
- DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
- DevMUD Objectives? Niklas Elmqvist
- DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
- DevMUD Objectives? Darrin Hyrup
- DevMUD Objectives? Travis Casey
- DevMUD Objectives? Chris Gray
- DevMUD Objectives? Chris Gray
- DevMUD Objectives? Hal Black
- DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Chris Gray
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Chris Gray
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) James Wilson
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Adam J. Thornton
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) James Wilson
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
- Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Greg Munt
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Cynbe ru Taren
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Chris Gray
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution ApplePiMan@aol.com
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Jon A. Lambert
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Chris Gray
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Cynbe ru Taren
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Adam J. Thornton
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution James Wilson
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Niklas Elmqvist
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution The Arrow
- MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Thandor
- DevMUD: Module message passing The Arrow
- DevMUD: Module message passing Vadim Tkachenko
- Why mudules and some other questions. Ben Greear
- Why mudules and some other questions. Vadim Tkachenko
- Reminiscing Jon A. Lambert