October 1998

• Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
• • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Brandon J. Rickman
  • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
    • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
      • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
        • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Peck, Matthew x96724c1
          > From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock[SMTP:caliban@darklock.com]
          > On 09:18 PM 10/2/98 -0400, I personally witnessed ApplePiMan@aol.com
          > jumping up to say:
          > >At 10/1/98 10:21 PM Brandon J. Rickman (ashes@pc4.zennet.com) altered the
          >
          > >fabric of reality by uttering:
          >
          > Oohh, good quote header. ;)
          >
          > >>Simulation wants a cause for each effect;
          > >>storytelling wants to make things up as you go along.
          >
          > Dissention: Simulation wants a PROGRAMMATICALLY DEFINED cause for each
          > effect, e.g. when something happens in the game, the *game* must know why.
          > Storytelling is satisfied if the *players* know why.
          >
          >
          I would agree to this definition, to a point. Storytelling does not truly
          require players to understand why event X occurs. My understanding of
          storytelling( or dramatist, as Travis Casey recommends) is that a given
          event occurs because it is interesting. This may or may not be planned in
          advance, and may or may not appear to have a cause. For example, a party
          comes upon a pair of dragons copulating in the woods. Under a simulationist
          perspective, these dragons are objects that happened to interact, happened
          to be opposite in gender, and in the mood. Under a dramatist perspective,
          the game engine (or one of the administrators) decided that it would be fun
          to drop a pair of copulating dragons in front of the party.
          
          Another example I just thought of brings up the old theory about a tree
          falling in the woods. In a simulation, it would make a noise. In a drama,
          I doubt that it would, or it would even fall. Perhaps it always existed as
          a fallen log.
          
          However, these are more simple examples. To regurgitate a previous (and
          more complex) example by Mr. Casey, let us assume that a group of players
          kills the evil sorceress. They may or may not know that the evil sorceress
          was the lover of the recurring evil sorcerer in the story. However, this
          evil sorcerer decides to visit them while they are fighting a horde of orcs.
          It does not matter why he appears, but it makes for an interesting story.
          Or the evil sorcerer might have decided that he would wreak his revenge, and
          happens to scry them, in the hopes of finding an inconvenient moment and
          exploiting it. Which one actually occurred? It depends on the engine. But
          for the players it will not matter. The sorcerer, no matter how he got
          there, and no matter why (is he getting revenge, or has it been a while and
          he's just reminding the players he's still around), is still there, and
          needs to be dealt with.
          
          > >let's presume, for a moment, a venture that has a huge bankroll
          > >and is not concerned with making money, and hire a human GM for every
          > >four or five characters in the world.
          >
          > Or which has defined a working method of attracting and inspiring
          > volunteers to do it for free. We discuss this a lot on the Godlike mailing
          > list, which is MUSH-centric and about as hostile to simulationists as we
          > are to storytellers. (The signal rate is a lot lower, too, but you could
          > argue that point by saying that while the posts aren't always *topical*
          > they are at the very least *interesting*. The converse is often the case
          > here; I see a lot of stuff that's on topic, but I don't care about it. On
          > Godlike, the conversation is only on topic about half the time and the
          > list
          > sits dormant for weeks at a time, but every post I see there interests
          > me.)
          >
          >
          Do you have an address for that? It sounds like it might be interesting. I
          am always willing to expand my horizons and receive large volumes of email.
          I can probably lurk there at least as successfully as I do here. :)
          
          
          [snip comparison of MUDs and MUSHs and the imms on them]
          
          > My take on why this happens is reasonably well-defined. The imps and imms
          > on a MUD are generally people educated and interested in the sciences, and
          > as such they value the control structures of a MUD -- but you really need
          > to balance that, since any control structure can be abused, so they
          > balance
          > it by selecting administrative personnel based on the control structures
          > and an arbitrary "trust" value. The folks who run a MUSH, on the other
          > hand, tend to be educated in the "softer" disciplines of psychology,
          > literature, philosophy, all those subjects which we laughingly refer to as
          > the "humanities" (would that make the sciences "inhumanities"?) -- and as
          > a
          > result, they have a general distrust of and often a disdain for those same
          > control structures. Once again, they recognise a need to balance this with
          > control structures, so they make an additional effort to offset the
          > "trust"
          > value which the system is based on with guidelines and rules.
          > The common thread here is that both groups are trying to balance their
          > games, but both are also prejudiced in favor of their chosen directions --
          > so when they balance things out, they *overcompensate* in the other
          > direction. Part of this is because they place too much faith in their own
          > field; part of it is because they don't place enough in the other.
          >
          >
          I would tend to agree to that. I am a chemistry major, with the intent on
          attending Medical School. (Soon to become a reality, hopefully) I would
          have to say that my mud is going to be more simulationist than dramatist,
          though I hope to have aspects of both (as most people probably do).
          However, if I have to sacrifice something, I would probably sacrifice the
          storyline. Since I plan to have various events trigger sequences that will
          proceed on their own course, players may or may not become involved in
          certain of those plots. If they do, great, it would make for an interesting
          story. If not, the events still proceed, and the players must live with the
          consequences (which has its own implications for the "storyline") However,
          the story does not drive the events, but the reverse.
          
          
          > Henceforth, MUD as used in this post will include all online multiplayer
          > games which fit to a significant degree the What-Is-A-MUD (proposed WIAM
          > abbreviation for future reference) definition we keep arguing about.
          >
          >
          I second the motion.
          
          > >Ah, but to be economically feasible (at least for a commmercial venture),
          >
          > >the storytelling world would need to be at least nearly as
          > >self-sustaining.
          >
          > This is the problem. The physical world is bound by laws which can be
          > quantified by physicists and mathematicians and other "hard" scientists,
          > and as a result can be modeled. However, there is no program out there
          > which can write consistent, cohesive storylines which will spark the
          > interest and participation of players -- there has to be a human being in
          > there. Every game, as soon as it comes out, bangs headlong into the
          > problem
          > that while computers are *intelligent* they are not *smart* (intelligence
          > is knowing something, smartness is knowing what it means). People, by and
          > large, tend to be smart but not intelligent. The combination is powerful,
          > but either on its own can succeed only in a series of well-defined tasks
          > that do not stray into the other side of the equation. Unfortunately, any
          > sort of world simulation which is intended to interact with human players
          > must take both into account.
          >
          This is clearly stated, and I totally agree with you. Computers are great
          for knowing stuff, but are weak on application. The great difficulty of
          coding AI programs to pass a Turing Test is proof of that. In any dramatist
          environment, I see the need for a large amount of human interaction in order
          to make a good story. Simulations are much easier to set up and turn loose,
          each cause being the effect of some other cause, all the way back to the
          beginning (booting up the MUD in the first place).
          
          > >But remember, I'm coming at this from the viewpoint of a commercial
          > >venture.
          >
          > I think every MUD is a commercial venture. It succeeds or fails in the
          > arena it defines (whether success is a matter of number of players, size
          > of
          > database, money from subscriptions, whatever) primarily on the strength of
          > its ability to convince the public at large that to contribute to this
          > arena will be Fun. In other words, whether your MUD is commercial or not
          > in
          > the sense of its intended income-generating potential, it will make or
          > break itself based on its ability to locate and please a market,
          > full-stop.
          > And that's the primary aim of any commercial venture; to make the customer
          > happy, so he keeps coming back.
          >
          I agree on this point as well. There is no sense in running a mud if no one
          comes on. It might be the best code in the world, but if no one enjoys it,
          it is less than useless, being a drain of resources.
          
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
          > So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
          > ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]---------------------------
          > Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban@darklock.com> | "Hell, you don't
          > Darklock Communications <http://www.darklock.com/> | know me."
          > FREE KEVIN MITNICK! <http://www.kevinmitnick.com/> | - Charles Manson
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you.
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          Matthew Peck
          No ICQ
          No Homepage to speak of
          x96724@exmail.usma.edu or
          valatar@mb2.mudservices.com
        • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
        • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Peck, Matthew x96724c1
          • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
            • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Hal Black
        • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room de scriptions) Koster, Raph
        • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Adam Wiggins
  • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room descriptions) Travis S. Casey
  • • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Roomdescriptions) ApplePiMan@aol.com
• Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room de scriptions) Koster, Raph
• • Storytelling vs. Simulationist (Was Room de scriptions) James Wilson
• simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction James Wilson
• • simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • • simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction James Wilson
    • • simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction ApplePiMan@aol.com
• [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
• • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Richard Woolcock
  • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
  • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Marian Griffith
  • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
    • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Robert Woods
      • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) Marc Hernandez
        • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict) The Wildman
• Quest engines Koster, Raph
• • Quest engines ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • Quest engines Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
  • • Quest engines Hal Black
• [Off-Topic] Patents (Was Storytelling vs. Simulationist) ApplePiMan@aol.com
• Psychopaths Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Psychopaths Koster, Raph
• Storytelling patents (Storytelling vs. Simulationist) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
• • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
• [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
• • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
  • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
    • • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
• Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Spoofing (Psychopaths) Koster, Raph
  • • Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Spoofing (Psychopaths) Richard Bartle
• Spoofing (Psychopaths) Richard Bartle
• • Spoofing (Psychopaths) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
• • [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? The Wildman
• Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
• • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Adam Wiggins
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Chris Gray
  • • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Hal Black
  • • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP John Bertoglio
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Petri Virkkula
  • • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Niklas Elmqvist
  • • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
    • • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Marc Hernandez
    • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Chris Gray
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP quzah [sotfhome]
  • Terrain/Landmass & GIF/BMP Dominic J. Eidson
• Current Projects Alex Stewart
• • Current Projects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • • Current Projects Robert Woods
  • Current Projects James Wilson
  • Current Projects Peck, Matthew x96724c1
  • • Current Projects Robert Woods
  • Current Projects T. Alexander Popiel
  • Current Projects Travis S. Casey
  • Current Projects Joel Kelso
  • Current Projects The Arrow
  • Current Projects Ryan Prince
  • Current Projects Wilburn, E.J.
  • Current Projects Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
  • Current Projects David Bennett
  • Current Projects chris@realm.zfn.uni-bremen.de
  • Current Projects Andrew Wilson
  • Current Projects Holly Sommer
  • • Current Projects Scatter
    • • Current Projects Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
  • Current Projects Niklas Elmqvist
• Red Black Tree ? Valerio Santinelli
• • Red Black Tree ? T. Alexander Popiel
  • Red Black Tree ? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • • Red Black Tree ? T. Alexander Popiel
    • • Red Black Tree ? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • Red Black Tree ? Ben Greear
• MUVE vs. MUD [was Current Projects] Alex Stewart
• Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
• • Laws of Online World Design Jon A. Lambert
  • Laws of Online World Design Ling
  • • Laws of Online World Design Adam Wiggins
    • Laws of Online World Design Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
  • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
  • • Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
      • • Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
        • • Laws of Online World Design manta@pobox.com
          • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
          • • Laws of Online World Design James Wilson
            • • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
            • Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
            • • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
              • • Laws of Online World Design ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
  • • Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
      • • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
        • Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • Laws of Online World Design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
  • Laws of Online World Design Darrin Hyrup
  • • Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
    • • Laws of Online World Design Darrin Hyrup
    • Laws of Online World Design J C Lawrence
  • Laws of Online World Design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • • Laws of Online World Design Koster, Raph
  • Laws of Online World Design Richard Bartle
  • Laws of Online World Design Richard Bartle
  • • Laws of Online World Design Vadim Tkachenko
• MUVE vs. MUD [was Current Projects] Richard Bartle
• META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Ling
• • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Chris Gray
  • • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Benjamin D. Wiechel
    • • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Ling
      • • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section J C Lawrence
  • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Adam Wiggins
  • META: Review of FAQ's Bio Section Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
• Advance book review Koster, Raph
• (CDMag) Sosaria Cracked: Why OSI's great social experiment is doomed J C Lawrence
• Ethics & Identity Scatter
• DNS adventure J C Lawrence
• • DNS adventure Chris Gray
  • • DNS adventure Caliban Tiresias Darklock
    • DNS adventure Adam J. Thornton
  • DNS adventure Vadim Tkachenko
  • • DNS adventure J C Lawrence
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) mark@erdos.Stanford.EDU
• • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
  • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Hal Black
  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
  • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
    • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Adam J. Thornton
      • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Marc Hernandez
        • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Wilburn, E.J.
          • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Jon Leonard
            • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
              • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
                • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
                  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Steve Sparks
                    • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
                      • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Steve Sparks
            • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
            • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
              • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
                • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
• A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environment Brandon A Downey
• • A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environment J C Lawrence
  • • A Query Regarding Economies in a Text Environme nt Koster, Raph
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Chris Gray
• • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) J C Lawrence
  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Jon Leonard
    • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Wilburn, E.J.
      • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) J C Lawrence
• [Tech] socket slowdown solved Chris Gray
• • [Tech] socket slowdown solved J C Lawrence
• ADMIN: unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Design) Chris Gray
• Network float format (RFC 1014) J C Lawrence
• Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
• • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Koster, Raph
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
    • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
      • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Elis Pomales
        • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Darrin Hyrup
          • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
            • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Darrin Hyrup
              • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Niklas Elmqvist
                • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
            • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Wilburn, E.J.
            • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
    • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
      • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
        • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Niklas Elmqvist
          • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
            • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
            • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Joel Kelso
            • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Marc Hernandez
              • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
                • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Adam J. Thornton
                • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
              • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
          • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
          • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Marc Hernandez
            • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
    • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
      • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
        • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
          • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals J C Lawrence
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon Leonard
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
    • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Adam J. Thornton
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Jon A. Lambert
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
  • Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals Chris Gray
• OT: TTYQuake Niklas Elmqvist
• • OT: TTYQuake Adam Wiggins
  • • OT: TTYQuake Adam J. Thornton
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Matthew R. Sheahan
• • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Vadim Tkachenko
  • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World J C Lawrence
• FW: Book? Koster, Raph
• GameStorm Matthew R. Sheahan
• • GameStorm J C Lawrence
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World Jon A. Lambert
• Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
• • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) quzah [sotfhome]
  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Steve Sparks
    • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
  • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Vadim Tkachenko
  • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) Koster, Raph
    • • Trusting the Client (Laws of Online World D esign) J C Lawrence
• Lengthy Palace study Koster, Raph
• Hacks/Diablo/etc (was: Trusting the quzah [sotfhome]
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Darrin Hyrup
  • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Adam J. Thornton
    • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Hal Black
    • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) J C Lawrence
  • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
• Recursive look Ling
• • Recursive look Holly Sommer
  • • Recursive look David Bennett
    • • Recursive look J C Lawrence
      • • Recursive look Marc Hernandez
        • • Recursive look Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
        • Recursive look Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
    • Recursive look The Wildman
  • Recursive look Adam Wiggins
  • • Recursive look Koster, Raph
    • Recursive look Ling
    • • Recursive look Adam Wiggins
      • Recursive look Marian Griffith
      • • Recursive look Brandon J. Rickman
        • • Recursive look Marian Griffith
          • • Recursive look Brandon J. Rickman
            • • Recursive look Marian Griffith
              • • Recursive look Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                • • Recursive look Nathan F Yospe
                  • • Recursive look Darrin Hyrup
                    • • Recursive look Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                • Recursive look Jon A. Lambert
  • Recursive look Matthew R. Sheahan
  • • Recursive look Nathan F Yospe
  • Recursive look Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
  • Recursive look Chris Gray
  • Recursive look Chris Gray
• evil - good realism Vladimir Prelovac
• • evil - good realism S. Patrick Gallaty
  • evil - good realism Adam Wiggins
  • evil - good realism Wilburn, E.J.
  • • evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
    • • evil - good realism Jon A. Lambert
      • • evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
    • evil - good realism Orion Henry
    • • evil - good realism Vadim Tkachenko
  • evil - good realism J C Lawrence
  • evil - good realism Chris Gray
  • evil - good realism Brandon A Downey
  • • evil - good realism quzah [sotfhome]
    • evil - good realism Vladimir Prelovac
  • evil - good realism Vadim Tkachenko
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Hal Black
  • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Felix A. Croes
    • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Darrin Hyrup
      • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) J C Lawrence
        • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Darrin Hyrup
          • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Jon Leonard
• PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
• • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
  • • PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
    • • PDMud thread summary Hal Black
      • • PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
      • PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
      • • PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
  • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
  • • PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
    • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
    • PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
    • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
    • • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
    • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
  • PDMud thread summary J C Lawrence
  • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
  • PDMud thread summary The Arrow
  • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
    • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • PDMud thread summary Steve Sparks
  • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
    • • PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
      • • PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
        • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
          • • PDMud thread summary Jon Leonard
            • PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
            • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
              • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
              • • PDMud thread summary Vadim Tkachenko
          • PDMud thread summary Darrin Hyrup
        • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
    • • PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary James Wilson
    • • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
      • • PDMud thread summary James Wilson
        • • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • PDMud thread summary ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
    • • PDMud thread summary James Wilson
      • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Niklas Elmqvist
    • • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
    • PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
    • • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
      • • PDMud thread summary Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
        • • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
  • PDMud thread summary Jon A. Lambert
  • PDMud thread summary Holly Sommer
  • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
    • • PDMud thread summary Adam J. Thornton
      • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
      • PDMud thread summary Adam Wiggins
      • • PDMud thread summary Jo Dillon
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
  • PDMud thread summary Chris Gray
  • • PDMud thread summary Alex Oren
• ADMIN: Unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
• DevMUD Event Language Hal Black
• • DevMUD Event Language Jon Leonard
  • • DevMUD Event Language J C Lawrence
    • • DevMUD Event Language James Wilson
      • • DevMUD Event Language J C Lawrence
  • DevMUD Event Language Chris Gray
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) J C Lawrence
  • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
  • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) James Wilson
    • • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Jo Dillon
    • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Jon Leonard
    • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) ApplePiMan@aol.com
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Niklas Elmqvist
• Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
• • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
  • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta ) Koster, Raph
  • • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta ) Marc Hernandez
  • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Adam J. Thornton
  • • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Adam Wiggins
    • • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
    • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) J C Lawrence
    • • Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
• Game Developers Conference Koster, Raph
• Crack.Com deceased Marc Hernandez
• OT, kinda, but yay :) Koster, Raph
• • OT, kinda, but yay :) Jon Leonard
  • • OT, kinda, but yay :) Nathan F Yospe
    • • OT, kinda, but yay :) Jon Leonard
    • OT, kinda, but yay :) Koster, Raph
  • OT, kinda, but yay :) Steve Sparks
  • OT, kinda, but yay :) Adam Wiggins
  • OT, kinda, but yay :) Chris Gray
  • • OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
    • OT, kinda, but yay :) Adam Wiggins
    • • OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
  • OT, kinda, but yay :) Jo Dillon
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Petri Virkkula
• Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released , (sorta) Holly Sommer
• OT: slashdot Adam Wiggins
• • OT: slashdot J C Lawrence
  • • OT: slashdot J C Lawrence
• Language support Koster, Raph
• PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
• • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
  • • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Jon Leonard
    • • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Darrin Hyrup
      • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
      • • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Adam J. Thornton
    • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah ApplePiMan@aol.com
  • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Chris Gray
  • • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Darrin Hyrup
    • PDMud, Gamora and Casbah Niklas Elmqvist
• UO: Second Age Koster, Raph
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Chris Gray
• • PDMud (was Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
• Golgotha as it applies to PDMud (was Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source , released (sorta)) Niklas Elmqvist
• OpenMUD: bus-based communications James Wilson
• • OpenMUD: bus-based communications Chris Gray
  • • OpenMUD: bus-based communications Niklas Elmqvist
  • OpenMUD: bus-based communications Niklas Elmqvist
  • OpenMUD: bus-based communications ApplePiMan@aol.com
• I wanna do it OO James Wilson
• • I wanna do it OO Chris Gray
• DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
• • DevMUD - thoughts.1 James Wilson
  • DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
  • DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
  • • DevMUD - thoughts.1 James Wilson
  • DevMUD - thoughts.1 Niklas Elmqvist
  • DevMUD - thoughts.1 Chris Gray
• CVS and LXR bruce@portland.puremagic.com
• openmud or pdmud or devmud James Wilson
• • openmud or pdmud or devmud Chris Gray
  • openmud or pdmud or devmud Darrin Hyrup
  • • openmud or pdmud or devmud Hal Black
  • openmud or pdmud or devmud Jon Leonard
  • • openmud or pdmud or devmud Adam J. Thornton
    • • openmud or pdmud or devmud Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
      • • openmud or pdmud or devmud Adam J. Thornton
• openmud: open issues James Wilson
• • openmud: open issues Vadim Tkachenko
  • • openmud: open issues James Wilson
    • • openmud: open issues Vadim Tkachenko
• MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Chris Gray
• • MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Adam J. Thornton
• MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) The Arrow
• • MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Jon Leonard
  • • MUD verb handling (Was: DevMUD - thoughts.1) Niklas Elmqvist
• Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
• • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Jon A. Lambert
  • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Niklas Elmqvist
  • • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Darrin Hyrup
    • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
  • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
    • • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Chris Gray
  • • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
    • • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc. Chris Gray
• DevMUD module configuration Jon Leonard
• • DevMUD module configuration James Wilson
  • • DevMUD module configuration Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
    • • DevMUD module configuration J C Lawrence
  • DevMUD module configuration Chris Gray
  • DevMUD module configuration Niklas Elmqvist
  • DevMUD module configuration Vadim Tkachenko
• Inheritance model (was PDMud thread summary) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
• • Inheritance model (was PDMud thread summary) Cynbe ru Taren
• Why did it take years? Cynbe ru Taren
• • Why did it take years? Adam Wiggins
  • • Why did it take years? James Wilson
    • • Why did it take years? Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
    • Why did it take years? Niklas Elmqvist
    • • Why did it take years? Holly Sommer
      • Why did it take years? J C Lawrence
    • Why did it take years? Jo Dillon
• Why did it take years? Cynbe ru Taren
• • Why did it take years? J C Lawrence
  • • Why did it take years? Adam Wiggins
• Why did it take years? Chris Gray
• Why did it take years? Erik Ostrom
• Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd) Niklas Elmqvist
• Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd) Niklas Elmqvist
• resource management (was: Missing the point) Felix A. Croes
• DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
• • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
  • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
      • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
        • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
          • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
            • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
              • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
        • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Niklas Elmqvist
        • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon Leonard
          • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Niklas Elmqvist
            • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
            • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Robert Brady
              • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules J C Lawrence
          • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Darrin Hyrup
        • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Adam J. Thornton
  • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
      • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
        • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
    • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Cynbe ru Taren
      • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
    • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jo Dillon
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Vadim Tkachenko
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Adam J. Thornton
    • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
    • DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
  • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Thandor
    • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules The Arrow
      • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Thandor
        • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Jon A. Lambert
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules Chris Gray
  • • DevMUD: Inheritable modules James Wilson
  • DevMUD: Inheritable modules J C Lawrence
• [DevMUD] driver implementation language Hal Black
• META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security J C Lawrence
• • META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security Jon Leonard
  • • META/ADMIN: CVS for DevMUD security James Wilson
• DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
• • DevMUD Objectives? Koster, Raph
  • • DevMUD Objectives? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • DevMUD Objectives? Petri Virkkula
  • • DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
  • DevMUD Objectives? Niklas Elmqvist
  • • DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
    • • DevMUD Objectives? Darrin Hyrup
      • DevMUD Objectives? Travis Casey
  • DevMUD Objectives? Chris Gray
  • DevMUD Objectives? Chris Gray
  • DevMUD Objectives? Hal Black
  • • DevMUD Objectives? Thandor
• Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Chris Gray
  • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Chris Gray
  • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
    • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) James Wilson
      • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Adam J. Thornton
  • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
  • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
      • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
        • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) James Wilson
    • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
  • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Thandor
  • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
  • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
      • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
      • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
        • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Jon A. Lambert
          • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
            • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
        • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) Vadim Tkachenko
        • • Why modules? (Was: Inheritable modules) J C Lawrence
• MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Greg Munt
• • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Cynbe ru Taren
  • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Chris Gray
  • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution ApplePiMan@aol.com
    • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Jon A. Lambert
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Chris Gray
  • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Cynbe ru Taren
      • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Adam J. Thornton
      • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution James Wilson
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Niklas Elmqvist
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution The Arrow
  • MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution Thandor
• DevMUD: Module message passing The Arrow
• • DevMUD: Module message passing Vadim Tkachenko
• Why mudules and some other questions. Ben Greear
• • Why mudules and some other questions. Vadim Tkachenko
• Reminiscing Jon A. Lambert