July 1997
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Marian Griffith
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- Wounds and trauma Adam Wiggins
- Wounds and trauma clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Wear Location System Jon A. Lambert
- Level abstractions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) Popularity of text-based MUDS clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- trying again Chris Gray
- My page, such as it is. Michael A. Hohensee
- What happened? Michael Hohensee
- Testing coder@ibm.net
- > Integrating PK Matt Chatterley
- Level abstractions / Game realism issues Matt Chatterley
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Nathan Yospe
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Marian Griffith
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- not about pk anymore Marian Griffith
- not about pk anymore Huibai
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- not about pk anymore Alex Oren
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- natural language parser (Output) Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Michael Hohensee
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Brandon Van Every
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Combat Adam Wiggins
- Attn JCL: A scenario for you Alex Oren
- Combat messages Marian Griffith
- Combat messages Adam Wiggins
- Combat messages Martin Keegan
- Combat messages Matt Chatterley
- What about drugs? Nathan Yospe
- What about drugs? Adam Wiggins
- What about drugs? Jon A. Lambert
- What about drugs? Martin Keegan
- coord-based recap? Huibai
- coord-based recap? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Docs uploaded Chris Gray
- What are the elements of playabilty? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Cynbe ru Taren
- META: Making the list public? coder@ibm.net
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Chris Gray
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? Alex Oren
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Huibai
- META: Making the list public? Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Marian Griffith
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- Longbows and such. Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbows clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Source data on Crossbow Marian Griffith
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Orion Henry
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Hohensee
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow daggers@iquest.net
- Source data on Crossbow Rudy Neeser
- Source data on Crossbow Malcolm Tester II
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Source data on Crossbow Blane Bramble
- Source data on Crossbow Daniel Carruth
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Tresca
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Dave Rickey
- Source data on Crossbow werda555@yahoo.com
- Source data on Crossbow Nathan Yospe
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Ben Tolputt
- Source data on Crossbow andy.wharton@ascentialsoftware.com
- Source data on Crossbow Skaei@aol.com
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Public Archives (META: Making the list public?) Brandon Gillespie
- Socrates - A brief look at AI(?) Jon A. Lambert
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Orion Henry
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Chris Gray
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Adam Wiggins
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Cynbe ru Taren
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Shawn Halpenny
- Graphical MUDs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphical MUDs Chris Gray
- Brief bio Niklas Elmqvist
- Brief bio Martin Keegan
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Greg Munt
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jeff Kesselman
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Orion Henry
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux] Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Alex Oren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) LP: How does it work? coder@ibm.net
- Collision detection coder@ibm.net
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under Linux coder@ibm.net
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people Chris Gray
- Motivating people Huibai
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people Jon A. Lambert
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under linux Orion Henry
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS. Jon A. Lambert
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Stories? Marian Griffith
- KaVir Nathaniel Blundell
- OT: Server Web Site Jon A. Lambert
- Recent mail delivery problems... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mail not getting to the list coder@ibm.net
- Mail not getting to the list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mail not getting to the list Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Alex Oren
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Nathan Yospe
- First Muds - newbie magic? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Chris Gray
- Dynamic Descriptions Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Persistant worlds, Dan Huibai
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Nathan Yospe
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Koster, Raph
- OT: NIS/AlterNIC and the DNS system Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Miroslav Silovic
- Persistance/stability Matt Chatterley
- Persistance/stability clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Brandon Gillespie
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Tilting at the SimWindmill - was UO Jon A. Lambert
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? coder@ibm.net
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
In <199708010225.CAA29060@out2.ibm.net>, on 07/31/97
at 07:41 PM, coder@ibm.net said:
>Brandon, who just joined us on the list, (we have 4 or 5 Bandons here
>now?) just plopped the following in r.g.m.a. Copied here for better
>response:
And has now unfortuantely left before I made reply to the post that
caused his invitation...
>From: "Brandon Van Every" <vanevery@blarg.net>
>Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
>Subject: DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding?
>A reflective question: what is the purpose of MUDding? An immediate
>and tempting answer is "it varies from person to person." That's
>true, but how many different approaches to MUDding are there
>nowadays, really? Leaving the "serious and scholarly" applications
>of MUDs aside for the moment, I've seen most people do MUDs for one
>of the following reasons:
> - to socialize in a "real-life" style
> - to play a "wealth and combat" game
> - to role-play
> - to code and build
Missing are simulation and puzzle solving.
>I have a somewhat different interest in MUDs: "to transform the
>ordinary forms of online community interaction." There are a lot of
>accepted conventions about how people and objects should behave on
>MUDs, mirroring the way people behave in the real world. I'm
>interested more in stepping through the mirror, and seeing what's on
>the other side. This can turn a lot of MUDding's "sacred cows"
>upside down: spoofing becomes an ordinary form of perception,
>player-killing becomes a non-issue because "death" isn't really
>separable from "life," the centrality of player and object ownership
>is not particularly important, and anyone might as well have just as
>much power as anyone else.
We agree on a lot here. This is one of the reasons the base model for
my world has become so alien to the rest of the MUDding community.
Examples:
Free user programming.
Goal oriented game.
Perma death.
Multiple characters may be played by one human player on one
connection.
Multiple bodies may be controlled by each character on that
connection.
Players and mobiles can steal/borrow each other's bodies.
Characters are not tied to any particular bodies.
Multiple body types including swarm bodies which *can* seperate into
useful fragments.
No global namespace.
Stats are seperated into body specific, character specific, and
account (human player) specific.
No assumed sim-peep population.
Highly interactive combat.
High magic world.
No concept of rooms -- all coordinate based.
Combat is now mostly indirect. Bashing someone with a sword is most
likley to get you a curious look. Arranging for all their magic to
suddenly fail, throwing various magic assaults at them, *and* bashing
them at with a sword is a much more likely approach.
The world story is:
The shared reality experienced in the MUD is a physical construct
resulting purely from the mutual mental actions of the players.
Probably this will be presented in much the manner of (all) the
players being once near-omnipitent (demi-)gods who were mutually
responsible for the initial creation of the universe, but are now
much descended from their former stature and power and concomittantly
bereft of much of their memory. Players are the only actual
intelligences in the game, and that this is a known feature of the
world (cf a multi-player Myst). Mobiles are the shadows of deranged
and descended intelligences (cf Heinleinian Puppet Masters,
David-brin-esque raised chimps/dogs, demons nailed to this weary
mortal coil).
>Are there other admins out there who are interested in exploring a
>"Through The Looking Glass" approach to social interaction? Or if
>not, would you care to discuss your reasons for not wanting to engage
>in such experiments?
One of my assumptions for my players is that world is almost never
what it appears to be, it almost always is doing what it appears to be
doing, but is almost never doing so for the reasons you think it is.
If you get a chance look back thru the archives at my discussions of
controlling mana as a method of deception, attack, defence etc.
Or to look at it another way: Why attempt to model our normal RL
universe when we can have so much more fun with the various logical
toys that a virtual environment allows?
>Here's an idea for a world that's borne out of the technical
>limitations of my computing environment. I have a PPP connection and
>a clunker 486 that I'm due to replace. Since I'm not willing to
>shell out mega-$$$$ for a dedicated line or a T1 link out of my home,
>this leaves me with very limited bandwidth to run a MUD. Using a
>store-and-forward approach off my ISP's UNIX server, it might be
>possible to squeeze up to 4 people online at some off-hour time of
>day. So, how would one successfully populate such a world? I'm
>thinking with automatons. Wherein players can connect into various
>automatons, control them, and nobody's really quite sure if they're
>interacting with an automaton or a real human being.
One of the side-effects of my body-stealing and lack of a global
namespace is that while you can assign names to bodies, you can never
be entirely sure WHO is controlling that body.
Conversely, I have a "spirit world", where you can assign names to
other characters, but you also have no way of determining what bodies
those characters are controlling.
>In the absence
>of controlling players, the automatons keep trundling along by
>themselves. The universe itself would be similarly "screwy and
>suspect," to keep life interesting.
We should talk more.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@null.net
(Contractor) Internet: coder@ibm.net
---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com