July 1997
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Marian Griffith
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- Wounds and trauma Adam Wiggins
- Wounds and trauma clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Wear Location System Jon A. Lambert
- Level abstractions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) Popularity of text-based MUDS clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- trying again Chris Gray
- My page, such as it is. Michael A. Hohensee
- What happened? Michael Hohensee
- Testing coder@ibm.net
- > Integrating PK Matt Chatterley
- Level abstractions / Game realism issues Matt Chatterley
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Nathan Yospe
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Marian Griffith
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- not about pk anymore Marian Griffith
- not about pk anymore Huibai
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- not about pk anymore Alex Oren
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- natural language parser (Output) Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Michael Hohensee
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Brandon Van Every
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Combat Adam Wiggins
- Attn JCL: A scenario for you Alex Oren
- Combat messages Marian Griffith
- Combat messages Adam Wiggins
- Combat messages Martin Keegan
- Combat messages Matt Chatterley
- What about drugs? Nathan Yospe
- What about drugs? Adam Wiggins
- What about drugs? Jon A. Lambert
- What about drugs? Martin Keegan
- coord-based recap? Huibai
- coord-based recap? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Docs uploaded Chris Gray
- What are the elements of playabilty? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Cynbe ru Taren
- META: Making the list public? coder@ibm.net
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Chris Gray
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? Alex Oren
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Huibai
- META: Making the list public? Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Marian Griffith
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- Longbows and such. Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbows clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Source data on Crossbow Marian Griffith
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Orion Henry
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Hohensee
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow daggers@iquest.net
- Source data on Crossbow Rudy Neeser
- Source data on Crossbow Malcolm Tester II
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Source data on Crossbow Blane Bramble
- Source data on Crossbow Daniel Carruth
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Tresca
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Dave Rickey
- Source data on Crossbow werda555@yahoo.com
- Source data on Crossbow Nathan Yospe
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Ben Tolputt
- Source data on Crossbow andy.wharton@ascentialsoftware.com
- Source data on Crossbow Skaei@aol.com
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Public Archives (META: Making the list public?) Brandon Gillespie
- Socrates - A brief look at AI(?) Jon A. Lambert
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Orion Henry
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Chris Gray
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Adam Wiggins
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Cynbe ru Taren
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Shawn Halpenny
- Graphical MUDs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphical MUDs Chris Gray
- Brief bio Niklas Elmqvist
- Brief bio Martin Keegan
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Greg Munt
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jeff Kesselman
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Orion Henry
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux] Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Alex Oren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) LP: How does it work? coder@ibm.net
- Collision detection coder@ibm.net
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under Linux coder@ibm.net
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people Chris Gray
- Motivating people Huibai
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people Jon A. Lambert
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under linux Orion Henry
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS. Jon A. Lambert
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Stories? Marian Griffith
- KaVir Nathaniel Blundell
- OT: Server Web Site Jon A. Lambert
- Recent mail delivery problems... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mail not getting to the list coder@ibm.net
- Mail not getting to the list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mail not getting to the list Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Alex Oren
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Nathan Yospe
- First Muds - newbie magic? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Chris Gray
- Dynamic Descriptions Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Persistant worlds, Dan Huibai
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Nathan Yospe
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Koster, Raph
- OT: NIS/AlterNIC and the DNS system Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Miroslav Silovic
- Persistance/stability Matt Chatterley
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Miroslav Silovic wrote:
> > have to explicitly reset it). When I first joined the first version of
> > this list, there was a lot of discussion (like now) with Chris L about
> > databases, commits, and lock/lockless stuff, and that just sort of
> > re-inforced my notion that other MUDs were persistant languages too.
> > It's clear that Diku's aren't, but couldn't we consider MOO's to be?
> > How about Mushes? I believe that Mushes don't save over a reboot (?),
>
> MUSHes and MOOs save everything across the reboot. MOOs even save the
> active processes (something Cold doesn't do, and I don't know about
> MUSH).
MUSH servers (Penn/Tiny) do not save what might be called 'active
processes' between full restarts - but mind you, the beta 1.7.0 version of
Penn can reboot without actually kicking players off and killing itself
completely.
> > but get the impression that MOO's do. LP's don't, unless explicit
> > saving to files is done by LPC code. Am I vaguely correct here? What
>
> I was rather apalled when I first discovered this. Mind you, it's much
> easier to implement than total persistance, and sometimes necessary
> (if you're doing a server in, say, LISP, you have a nonpersistant
> systems with pretty damn good compilers out there that are unable to
> save the methods unless you keep track of the source).
Yup. Its not hard at all to get LPC to save most of the stuff you're
handling, and just a little bit hard to do the rest (although the design
requires a fair ton of thought). Think about why it doesnt - given the
original intentions of both bases, MOO had to save everything, and LP had
to save nothing. There was always the potential for a high level of
persistancy with LPC, but noone really took up the offer. :)
> > Adam also mentioned that most MUDs don't stay up for more than a week
> > or two. That surprises me, too. I would have thought that LambdaMOO
> > would have been up for at least months at a time. Given that most don't
> > save everything over reboots, that sort of corrupts the impression of
> > a real "world", doesn't it?
>
> In fact, even if a MUD is up for only a week at the time, 'everything
> gets reset in 5 minutes' breaks a spell for me.
Several muds reboot daily - but usually at low player times (and with them
it tends to be necessary 'maintenance' which is unavoidable). That they
don't save over reboots does spoil the image, if you're trying to explore
the world. If you just want to run around and hack things (as was the
target on the games I refer to), it was cool, because everything
respawned, although you had to go and re-equip yourself. :P Noticeable
resets of anything leave big scars in the environment.
> Unfortunately the only mainstream programming langauge with full persistance
> of both objects and methods /and/ a good compiler is Rscheme (one I could
> find, at least. I'd like to hear if there are others). Unfortunately
> the bloody thing keeps the complete transaction log and if there is
> a db compactification function, it certainly isn't documented. :(
Ick. Well, I've not actually heard of one to date.
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's
mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -George Orwell - Persistance/stability clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Brandon Gillespie
- Persistance/stability Matt Chatterley
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Tilting at the SimWindmill - was UO Jon A. Lambert
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? coder@ibm.net
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com