July 1997
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Marian Griffith
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- Wounds and trauma Adam Wiggins
- Wounds and trauma clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Wear Location System Jon A. Lambert
- Level abstractions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) Popularity of text-based MUDS clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- trying again Chris Gray
- My page, such as it is. Michael A. Hohensee
- What happened? Michael Hohensee
- Testing coder@ibm.net
- > Integrating PK Matt Chatterley
- Level abstractions / Game realism issues Matt Chatterley
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Nathan Yospe
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Marian Griffith
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- not about pk anymore Marian Griffith
- not about pk anymore Huibai
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- not about pk anymore Alex Oren
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- natural language parser (Output) Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Michael Hohensee
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Brandon Van Every
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Combat Adam Wiggins
- Attn JCL: A scenario for you Alex Oren
- Combat messages Marian Griffith
- Combat messages Adam Wiggins
- Combat messages Martin Keegan
- Combat messages Matt Chatterley
- What about drugs? Nathan Yospe
- What about drugs? Adam Wiggins
- What about drugs? Jon A. Lambert
- What about drugs? Martin Keegan
- coord-based recap? Huibai
- coord-based recap? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Docs uploaded Chris Gray
- What are the elements of playabilty? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Cynbe ru Taren
- META: Making the list public? coder@ibm.net
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Chris Gray
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? Alex Oren
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Huibai
- META: Making the list public? Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Marian Griffith
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- Longbows and such. Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbows clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Source data on Crossbow Marian Griffith
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Orion Henry
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Hohensee
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow daggers@iquest.net
- Source data on Crossbow Rudy Neeser
- Source data on Crossbow Malcolm Tester II
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Source data on Crossbow Blane Bramble
- Source data on Crossbow Daniel Carruth
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Tresca
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Dave Rickey
- Source data on Crossbow werda555@yahoo.com
- Source data on Crossbow Nathan Yospe
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Ben Tolputt
- Source data on Crossbow andy.wharton@ascentialsoftware.com
- Source data on Crossbow Skaei@aol.com
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Public Archives (META: Making the list public?) Brandon Gillespie
- Socrates - A brief look at AI(?) Jon A. Lambert
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Orion Henry
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Chris Gray
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Adam Wiggins
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Cynbe ru Taren
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Shawn Halpenny
- Graphical MUDs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphical MUDs Chris Gray
- Brief bio Niklas Elmqvist
- Brief bio Martin Keegan
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Greg Munt
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jeff Kesselman
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Orion Henry
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux] Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Alex Oren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) LP: How does it work? coder@ibm.net
- Collision detection coder@ibm.net
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under Linux coder@ibm.net
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people Chris Gray
- Motivating people Huibai
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people Jon A. Lambert
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under linux Orion Henry
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS. Jon A. Lambert
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Stories? Marian Griffith
- KaVir Nathaniel Blundell
- OT: Server Web Site Jon A. Lambert
- Recent mail delivery problems... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mail not getting to the list coder@ibm.net
- Mail not getting to the list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mail not getting to the list Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Alex Oren
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Nathan Yospe
- First Muds - newbie magic? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Chris Gray
- Dynamic Descriptions Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Persistant worlds, Dan Huibai
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Nathan Yospe
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Koster, Raph
- OT: NIS/AlterNIC and the DNS system Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Miroslav Silovic
- Persistance/stability Matt Chatterley
- Persistance/stability clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Brandon Gillespie
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Tilting at the SimWindmill - was UO Jon A. Lambert
> From: Koster, Raph <rkoster@origin.ea.com>
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online
>
----snip----
>
> You've missed two very important ones that are intrinsic to UO as a
> world, and to my mind are intrinsic to future mud development into
> virtual realities (which is, btw, where I think this genre is headed
> in the future).
>
> UO has an economic system that goes from raw materials to finished
> goods, and players can make any step of it.
>
> UO also has an ecological system that handles creature repopulation,
> behaviors, etc.
>
> Both of these are intrinsic to the game, far more so than combat or
> spells or guilds. They are the simulation layer under that, and
> despite repeated calls for "mud evolution" not many take up the
> gauntlet to work on this sort of thing further. Yet I remain convinced
> that adding a simulation layer to muds is where the genre needs to
> go.
>
------
I strongly agree with this.
Actually much of the technical traffic on this list has been indirectly
addressing these issues. Implementation and design issues relating to
events, messaging, multi-tasking, object storage and retrieval,
transaction rollback and recovery, etc. are not just "wouldn't that be
technically slick" ideas. They are attempts to address Concurrency and
Persistence (at least that's my take). Objects in the "real" world are
concurrent and persistent, this is rarely true on most muds. I also
believe that if these complexities are kept within the server and are
implicit not explicit features of a mud building language, one will be
left with an ideal tool to build the simulation layer. Basically, I hope
my "end product" of my server design to be, not a mud, but a simulation
building tool.
Much of the discussion here has also revolved around realism, mechanics
and/or representing things to the player in an immersive believable
manner. I think this falls into the general category of observed behavior.
There is also a wide range of opinion as to how much of this is really
important, especially if it is not actually directly observable. I
believe that concentration on just the surface aspects of behavior are
primarily what muds "do now".
Determining the abstract processes that underlie this observed behavior
(answering the why's) and building simple machines to represent aspects
of this behavior will result in richer and more flexible systems. I
think Nathan has attempted to hit this area rather directly with his
attempts to implement the "basic laws of physics" and build up from that.
I see Matt and some others drilling down from the top with Virtual
Alchemy and a whole host of other observable aspects.
There is this area somewhere in the middle of player observable behavior
and the basic laws of objects . I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's a land full of SimPeeps, SimEcology, SimGenetics, SimAlchemy,
SimEconomics, SimCritters, SimMagic, SimPolitics and many others. I
think many of the people on this list are indeed tilting at same windmill
but from different angles and perspectives whether they realize it or not.
Thanks Raph for an altogether excellent and well-thought out post. =)
JL
A side note: Thanks for pointing out that special feature of Dikus.
and their derivatives. Templates. I have been unable to come up with
satisfactory terminology to describe this concept of building worlds.
Lay this concept on top of a good architecture and a supporting language
and you'll increase the speed/ease of world building a hundred-fold and
at the same time make it accessible to the non-programmer. ID's Doom
and Quake are good examples of this at work. Has anyone noted the
thousands, if not tens of thousands of worlds built using these tools?
Imagine if the sets of objects and the sets of blackboxed systems were
richer and more properties accessible to the non-programmer. Couple these
tools to a good OO mud language and you've got something big IMO.
MakeZonesFast and Spam are the types of building tools I refer to. The
are very similar to DoomEdit, QuakeEdit, and the host of Doom editors
if you make the leap that text:=graphics. - DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? coder@ibm.net
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com