July 1997
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Marian Griffith
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- Wounds and trauma Adam Wiggins
- Wounds and trauma clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Wear Location System Jon A. Lambert
- Level abstractions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) Popularity of text-based MUDS clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- trying again Chris Gray
- My page, such as it is. Michael A. Hohensee
- What happened? Michael Hohensee
- Testing coder@ibm.net
- > Integrating PK Matt Chatterley
- Level abstractions / Game realism issues Matt Chatterley
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Nathan Yospe
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Marian Griffith
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- not about pk anymore Marian Griffith
- not about pk anymore Huibai
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- not about pk anymore Alex Oren
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- natural language parser (Output) Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Michael Hohensee
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Brandon Van Every
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Combat Adam Wiggins
- Attn JCL: A scenario for you Alex Oren
- Combat messages Marian Griffith
- Combat messages Adam Wiggins
- Combat messages Martin Keegan
- Combat messages Matt Chatterley
- What about drugs? Nathan Yospe
- What about drugs? Adam Wiggins
- What about drugs? Jon A. Lambert
- What about drugs? Martin Keegan
- coord-based recap? Huibai
- coord-based recap? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Docs uploaded Chris Gray
- What are the elements of playabilty? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Cynbe ru Taren
- META: Making the list public? coder@ibm.net
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Chris Gray
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? Alex Oren
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Huibai
- META: Making the list public? Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Marian Griffith
- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Matt Chatterley
- Longbows and such. Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Cynbe ru Taren
- R-trees &kin Martin Keegan
- META: Making the list public? S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbows clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Source data on Crossbow Marian Griffith
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Orion Henry
- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Hohensee
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow daggers@iquest.net
- Source data on Crossbow Rudy Neeser
- Source data on Crossbow Malcolm Tester II
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Source data on Crossbow Blane Bramble
- Source data on Crossbow Daniel Carruth
- Source data on Crossbow Michael Tresca
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Christopher Kohnert
- Source data on Crossbow Dave Rickey
- Source data on Crossbow werda555@yahoo.com
- Source data on Crossbow Nathan Yospe
- Source data on Crossbow Travis Casey
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Source data on Crossbow Bobby Martin
- Source data on Crossbow Ben Tolputt
- Source data on Crossbow andy.wharton@ascentialsoftware.com
- Source data on Crossbow Skaei@aol.com
- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
- Public Archives (META: Making the list public?) Brandon Gillespie
- Socrates - A brief look at AI(?) Jon A. Lambert
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Orion Henry
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Chris Gray
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Adam Wiggins
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Cynbe ru Taren
- Graphical MUDs Michael Hohensee
- Graphical MUDs Shawn Halpenny
- Graphical MUDs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphical MUDs Chris Gray
- Brief bio Niklas Elmqvist
- Brief bio Martin Keegan
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Greg Munt
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jeff Kesselman
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Orion Henry
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux] Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Alex Oren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) LP: How does it work? coder@ibm.net
- Collision detection coder@ibm.net
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under Linux coder@ibm.net
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people Chris Gray
- Motivating people Huibai
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people Jon A. Lambert
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under linux Orion Henry
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
[Matt C:]
> On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Jeff Kesselman wrote:
> > >Ah, but is it a MUD? I've heard claims on newsgroups that although it is
> > >very pretty, it doesn't make for a very good MUD, in terms of the kind of
> > >flexibility, language input, etc. that people expect from MUDs. Can you
> > >tell us anything about that?
> >
> > Okay,we a re abotu to have the "what is a MUD" debate...
>
> Hmm. Not sure if anyone has it to hand, but a few posters (me, the
> Keeganish one, and a couple of other people I don't remember) ended up
I stuck in my two cents at one point...
> with what we thought was a pretty good definition of this in r.g.m.a some
> time ago. IIRC, It ran along the lines of interactivity between objects
> and persons as well as NPCs in the game world. You can probably argue a
> multi-user version of Ultima into that definition.
The main point of the thread was asking whether Quake or Diablo qualify
as muds. I said no, because they are missing a very important aspect
of a mud: permanency. (The artificially low number of participants per
server is also a factor, IMO.) What makes a mud a virtual world instead of
'just' a game is that there is an ever-changing world which the player
can enter, interact with, and leave. When they return at a later time,
effects of their previous visit are still in place: things they have
interacted with stayed that way until changed by another character; their
own character's skills, attributes, scars, and whatever else are all saved.
Characters age independant of play-time, but instead in terms of game-time.
The difference boils down to, I think, that a 'game' is a player-oriented
world, whereas a mud is just a world. When any given player or set of players
leaves, the world continues on its merry way. When all players leave a
'normal' game, the game ceases. This is simulated in D&D by having
the DM say, "Well, while you were gone..." In a mud it's for real.
> > Let me just say this: Its a game with a ver primitive and simpel combat
> > system, a detailed world full of lots of little "toys" to learn to play
> > with and manipulate and rpetty good charcter-customization features.
I hardly think a combat system is necessary. Perhaps a better phrase
would be a world full of internaly consistant systems, the most
common of which are combat, spells, and guilds. The 'toys' bit strikes
upon a deeper point - level of interactivity. Matt covered this (below)
anyhow, so I've not much more to add. The last bit - character customization
- is also important, although I'm not sure what a really solid guideline
would be. At the very least you need something where you can choose
a lot of options to personalize your character, then have that character
use those abilities to grow, change, and learn new abilities, all of
which are 'remembered' by the game. This can include anything
from your skill with long blades to scars to your character's birthday.
> Well.. thats not what makes it a mud, IMHO. Its the level of interactivity
> between players (and NPCs), as well as manipulation of static objects -
> quake would be a mud, were it not that the scenery is only 'cover' - you
> can only manipulate very, very limited parts of it, in absolutely set
> ways. This is quite an interesting point to explore in a more civilised
> environment than usenet.
Yeah. I'm tempted to say, "Many muds aren't much better than Diablo.."
but actually that's not really true. Even stock ROM has a lot more
widgets to tug on than that. Ultima Online I've yet to actually play, but
I've heard very good things and of course I have every confidence in our
friend Ptah, since he was the creator of one of the best muds to ever
grace the internet. (IMO, of course..)
> > How GOOD a MUD it is i wont address, but the goal abnd work was clearly
> > fuocused on building a world ratehr then a game, whcih is why I consider it
> > a MUD but not NWN or DSO.
>
> This is probably another qualification towards the mud side - although
> plenty of muds are 'just games' (read: Lots of stock muds are this way,
> and many never get changed significantly). The goal of 'building a
> world/environment' is something that appears to have evolved amongst the
> readership here (not that its a bad thing by any means! Its a huge
> conceptual step forwards, IMHO).
I've always thought this way. It was more a mistake than anything I guess;
when I logged onto my first mud, saw the way I could interact with the
environment and actually have things *stay* the way I put them; heard
the immorts talk about building their zones; heard all the stories of
the incredible happenings (most of which were no doubt greatly exagerated)
I got this picture of this horendously complex, completely consistant
and self-maintaining world. Of course, that was hardly the case - as I
recall that mud crashed not less than every five to six hours, and was
about the furthest thing from consistant there is. Still, that's the
feeling I got when I first played it, and that vision has stuck with
me ever since. So to me it's actually kind of amazing that others
play the game and consider it just a big game of Zork with lots of people
around to talk to. - Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS. Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Jon A. Lambert
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS. Martin Keegan
- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Stories? Marian Griffith
- KaVir Nathaniel Blundell
- OT: Server Web Site Jon A. Lambert
- Recent mail delivery problems... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mail not getting to the list coder@ibm.net
- Mail not getting to the list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mail not getting to the list Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Alex Oren
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Nathan Yospe
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Michael Hohensee
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Nathan Yospe
- First Muds - newbie magic? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- First Muds - newbie magic? Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Chris Gray
- Dynamic Descriptions Martin Keegan
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Dynamic Descriptions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Dynamic Descriptions Jeff Kesselman
- Persistant worlds, Dan Huibai
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Nathan Yospe
- Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO} Koster, Raph
- OT: NIS/AlterNIC and the DNS system Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Mail not getting to the list clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Miroslav Silovic
- Persistance/stability Matt Chatterley
- Persistance/stability clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Brandon Gillespie
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Persistance/stability Chris Gray
- Persistance/stability Adam Wiggins
- Tilting at the SimWindmill - was UO Jon A. Lambert
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? coder@ibm.net
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Brandon Van Every
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Matt Chatterley
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? Jeff Kesselman
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- DESIGN: The purpose of MUDding? clawrenc@cup.hp.com