July 1997
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Marian Griffith
- A simple political/social system? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- A simple political/social system? Jon A. Lambert
- Wounds and trauma Adam Wiggins
- Wounds and trauma clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Wear Location System Jon A. Lambert
- Level abstractions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) Popularity of text-based MUDS clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- trying again Chris Gray
- My page, such as it is. Michael A. Hohensee
- What happened? Michael Hohensee
- Testing coder@ibm.net
- > Integrating PK Matt Chatterley
- Level abstractions / Game realism issues Matt Chatterley
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Chris Gray
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Nathan Yospe
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Richard Woolcock
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Marian Griffith
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Adam Wiggins
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Miroslav Silovic
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jon A. Lambert
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Shawn Halpenny
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- C&C and Event Rescheduling clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- C&C and Event Rescheduling Jeff Kesselman
- not about pk anymore Marian Griffith
- not about pk anymore Huibai
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- not about pk anymore Alex Oren
- not about pk anymore Matt Chatterley
- not about pk anymore clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- natural language parser (Output) Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Michael Hohensee
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Chris Gray
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Nathan Yospe
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Brandon Van Every
- Virtual Chemistry Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Matt Chatterley
- Virtual Chemistry Adam Wiggins
- Virtual Chemistry Huibai
- Virtual Chemistry Marian Griffith
- Virtual Chemistry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Combat Adam Wiggins
- Attn JCL: A scenario for you Alex Oren
- Combat messages Marian Griffith
- Combat messages Adam Wiggins
- Combat messages Martin Keegan
- Combat messages Matt Chatterley
- What about drugs? Nathan Yospe
- What about drugs? Adam Wiggins
- What about drugs? Jon A. Lambert
- What about drugs? Martin Keegan
- coord-based recap? Huibai
- coord-based recap? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Docs uploaded Chris Gray
- What are the elements of playabilty? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Cynbe ru Taren
- META: Making the list public? coder@ibm.net
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Chris Gray
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Making the list public? Michael Hohensee
- META: Making the list public? Brandon Gillespie
- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
- META: Making the list public? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
In <33CCD580.41C67EA6@iname.com>, on 07/16/97
at 08:40 AM, Shawn Halpenny <malachai@iname.com> said:
>clawrenc@cup.hp.com wrote:
>> For a variety of reasons and with considerable encouragement I'm
>> considering taking the list public. Mainly this will consist of
>> advertising it in r.g.m.announce and setting up a supporting web page.
>> I'm interested in arguments for, against, and surrounding this motion.
>> I'm especially interested in concerns, predicted problems, or possible
>> ideas for heading off problems.
>>
>> A) Should the archives be requestable or browsable by non-members?
>> Note that this effectively makes ever poster's email address open.
>Were I a non-member interested in some of the things that are
>discussed on the list, but not interested in becoming a member, this
>would be welcome. I'm not sure that configuration is even
>possible...
I can make the archives browsable easily enough. I have no real
interest however in supporting or encouraging non-contributing peope
with the list's traffic. The list survives on the contributions of
its members. I have little driving interest in spreading that benefit
to those who don't contribute.
>I particularly like the idea of having the archives browsable by list
>members. I haven't the space requirements to store every article
>that comes up on the list, so I find myself hanging on to the ones of
>particular interest to me. The drawback, of course, is that there
>are occasionally times when I need to check that one, three-sentence
>argument clincher a few articles back in the thread and discover that
>I no longer have the article.
Possible solutions:
Searchable archives on a web page.
Browsable archives on a web page.
Email requestable archives.
Automatic distribution of archives (see earlier reply on seperate
subscription list or blast-o-gram to all current members).
Side question: Should last year's traffic be archived?
>> B) Should the list be echoed (one way) to a newsgroup? If it is
>> echoed to a newsgroup should that group be a private group on a
>> private newsserver, or should I create a moderated alt.mud.development
>> group?
>
>My concern with this is the distribution of the newsgroup. I read
>posts to the list while at work and reply to them when I have spare
>time. I do not know how receptive the newsserver admins would be to
>picking up the new group (it being mud-related and potentially
>detracting from work). Even if they did, since I'm a contractor,
>I've no guarantee of being at this place of work for a definitive
>time, meaning I have to make sure the next location I am at carries
>the group. The alternative is to only participate on the list, but
>since the group is one way (a must, I think, if that route were
>chosen), any discussion that doesn't filter back to the list from the
>group is inaccessible to me.
Were I to port the list to a newsgroup, several things would be true:
1) It would be a one way port. Users could not post to the
newsgroup and have their articles appear on the list.
2) It would be a moderated group that refused all postings (I'd be
the moderator, and I'd bounce all submissions). This is to prevent
dilution of the list, and migration of list threads to open newsgroups
(resulting in attrition of the list).
3) It would *NOT* be ported to one of the already existant r.g.m.*
groups, as the net result would be that thread traffic would migrate
from the list to the newsgroups.
What it would be:
A moderated group that contained copies ofall list traffic, to which
nobody could post.
>Perhaps echoing to an existing newsgroup with decent distribution is
>an option?
See above.
>> C) Should the list be split into seperate lists, divided by topic?
>> What should the topic splits be? (Note: I'm not keen on this motion.
>> Convince me)
>Definitely not. If the list were split into, say, game design issues
>(social, political, economic, world-building stuff, etc.) and the
>technical nuts-and-bolts of implementation, I would almost
>exclusively read the technical list, regardless of the importance of
>the non-technical. Having the two lists combined makes me think
>about things that I would probably not consider or come up with on my
>own--from both sides. Splitting the list would also hamper the
>possibility of overlap between the two, something useful and which
>I've seen occur a number of times on the current list.
This is my primary concern on this point. Currently I'm very against
dividing the list in any way.
>> E) How should new membership be handled?
>>
>> Possible membership options:
>>
>> 1) Publicise the list but only allow membership by application.
>> ie New members would have to apply, stating *why* they should be
>> considered as members. These applications would be posted to the list
>> as well as my decisions on them. (I'm not fond of this approach for
>> the overhead it puts on me).
>I think we can assume that we are intelligent enough to judge a
>person on his or her own merits where contributions to the list are
>considered, meaning I think the current method of membership is fine.
>The posting of the applications to the list would be more wasteful
>noise than signal.
The problem is that once the list is publicised, how does
BubbaPotentialMember having found out about the list manage to become
a member?
>> 2) Publicise the fact of the list, but leave membership by
>> invitation only. Require any new member to be sponsored by an
>> existant member.
>This I like, though it seems somewhat at odds with publicizing the
>list: how do people who don't know anyone on the list join?
Precisely.
>> 3) Variation on #2: require the sponsor to also be an actively
>> posting member.
>Have to determine what constitutes an actively posting member. Also,
>what if Bubba, who is not a frequent contributor to the list, but
>reads everything that comes across it, has friend Boffo who has
>tonnes of ideas and wants to join the list? Does Bubba have to ask
>one of the actively posting members to bring in his friend Bubba?
>Probably not a problem, but it seems like a layer of needless hassle.
Agreed. It is an option however.
>> 4) Make membership uncontrolled.
>I think we'd attract some number of zealots who would then
>subsequently be dismembered from the list (too bad the context for
>that word was incorrect) after their evangelizing. Not good, not
>bad, but a hassle.
There's a potential for the noise-stomping activities to overwhelm the
rest of the list's traffic. It has me concerned.
cf comp.lang.c at the start of every school year. Freshmen "do my
homework for me" posts go thru the roof. Traffic goes thru the roof.
Flames go thru the roof. Signal level goes sub-basement.
>I would choose to make the archives public (still wrangling with the
>visible email address issue), and echo postings to a newsgroup in
>some fashion. Membership should stay as it is now.
Understood.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@null.net
(Contractor) Internet: coder@ibm.net
---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
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- META: Making the list public? Jon A. Lambert
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- META: Making the list public? Shawn Halpenny
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- Longbows and such. Cynbe ru Taren
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- R-trees &kin Martin Keegan
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- Source data on Crossbow Cynbe ru Taren
- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
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- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
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- Source data on Crossbow Matt Chatterley
- Source data on Crossbow Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Source data on Crossbow Marian Griffith
- Source data on Crossbow clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Source data on Crossbow Orion Henry
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- Source data on Crossbow daggers@iquest.net
- Source data on Crossbow Rudy Neeser
- Source data on Crossbow Malcolm Tester II
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- Source data on Crossbow rayzam
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- Source data on Crossbow Daniel Carruth
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- Public Archives (META: Making the list public?) Brandon Gillespie
- Socrates - A brief look at AI(?) Jon A. Lambert
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- Evil coders from beyond the grave Chris Gray
- Evil coders from beyond the grave Matt Chatterley
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- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Greg Munt
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- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Cynbe ru Taren
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Orion Henry
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux] Michael Hohensee
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded programming under Linux Nathan Yospe
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- Multi-threaded programming under Linux clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) LP: How does it work? coder@ibm.net
- Collision detection coder@ibm.net
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under Linux coder@ibm.net
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people Chris Gray
- Motivating people Huibai
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people Jon A. Lambert
- Motivating people Greg Munt
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Motivating people clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: Multi-threaded programming under linux Orion Henry
- Graphic MUDS. Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS. Chris Gray
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- Graphic MUDS. Matt Chatterley
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- KaVir Nathaniel Blundell
- OT: Server Web Site Jon A. Lambert
- Recent mail delivery problems... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mail not getting to the list coder@ibm.net
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- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Jeff Kesselman
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Alex Oren
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Koster, Raph
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
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- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Chris Gray
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Richard Woolcock
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- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
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- Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online Matt Chatterley
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