May 1997
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In <199705101528.KAA18601@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com>, on 05/10/97
at 12:39 PM, "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com> said: >
From: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
>> In <Pine.SOL.3.95.970507222009.27044A-100000@sun-cc203>, on 05/07/97
>> at 08:22 PM, Ling <K.L.Lo-94@student.lut.ac.uk> said:
>>
>> >Anyone considering implementing pseudo-random plotlines in their mud?
>>
>> Yup, tho not exactly as random plots, but by implementing systems
>> which generate plots as side-effects of their normal operation.
>I'd never been very impressed with direct random generation as a
>means to generate quests/plotlines.
>I have the entire collection of "Sim" games and find them quite
>fascinating. While changes at the micro level have effects that can
>be easily determinable, the changes on the macro level are much less
>readily perceived (for the average human that is ).
Yup, especially as many of the balances in the Sim games are actively
unstable if not positive feed-back loops. It makes for a continual
battle just to try and keep the register at the desired level.
I like this sort of instability for my (I dunno what to call them)
"active systems"(?). In the orc/cave/breeder/drone/fighter/etc case
the system is geared to being actively unstable so that the
populations positive feedback into huge explosions that have the Orcs
marauding about the landscape in huge armies and dieing like flies
(remember, all objects have a limited life, so Orcs die of old age),
followed by all the Orcs dissappearing as the population dies and only
the breeders are left producing the next great wave. Lemming-like they
boom-crash while allowing players to interced to accellerate the cycle
or try and intercept the king making process to become king themselves
and thereby guide the cycle to being slower or faster, or
concentrating more on setting up new Orc warrens etc.
>I have no idea how easily programmable these simulations are. I have
>my suspicions that they are not that complicated for each machine.
>What really impresses me is the level of game balance that is
>achieved with net sum of the hundreds of these machines changing the
>state of the system.
Having written a few of the old text versions of these games (and dug
thru the source of other's games in the genre), the main trick is to
make the "desired state" unstable. Don't make it unobtainable, but
make it a moving target. Simple examples are to move the point of
inflexion as other variables change (eg population). Thus the player
is constantly tweaking trying to keep on the sweet spot as the system
develops. Another trick is to make the inflexion point a null spot
(ie once there it will tend to stay there if nothing else changes),
but to then make the various components of the inflexion turn into
feedback loops as soon as they leave the sweet spot.
>> What I like to try and do is to come up with a system which is self
>> animating, and inherently non-deterministic, but which also allows
>> players to interject themselves into to attempt to modify the
>> operation. The classic case which I've posted on here before is that
>> of the Orc breeders/fighters/nobles/king etc. Unfortunately I don't
>> seem to have a good copy of it to cut'n'paste in here, so here goes
>> from rough memory:
>>
>The orc/warrior scenario reminds me very much of the plot of the
>red/black scenario in SimAnt.
Excellant! (I'll have to have a look at that game some time)
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@null.net
(Contractor) Internet: coder@ibm.net
---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
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- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... Matt Chatterley
- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... Marian Griffith
- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... Alex Oren
- Prepositions and Parsing... S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Prepositions and Parsing... Chris Gray
- Prepositions and Parsing... S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Prepositions and Parsing... Chris Gray
- Prepositions and Parsing... S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Prepositions and Parsing... Chris Gray
- unsubscribe mud-dev Dustan M. Hough
- Multiple characters and nested prompts clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question Jeff Kesselman
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question coder@ibm.net
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question Nathan Yospe
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question coder@ibm.net
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question Nathan Yospe
- Languages Ling
- Q's Ling
- Q's coder@ibm.net
- Dupes. coder@ibm.net
- Languages coder@ibm.net
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Michael Hohensee
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Nathan Yospe
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. coder@ibm.net
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. RHS Linux User
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Jeff Kesselman
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Shawn Halpenny
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Michael Hohensee
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Adam Wiggins
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Raz
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Nathan Yospe
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Raz
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Nathan Yospe
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Ling
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Miroslav Silovic
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Miroslav Silovic
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Miroslav Silovic
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Miroslav Silovic
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Jon A. Lambert
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Jeff Kesselman
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Jeff Kesselman
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Jon A. Lambert
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Chris Gray
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Rooms, 3D arrays, etc. Marian Griffith
- Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Internal Mud Languages Jon A. Lambert
- Internal Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Internal Mud Languages Jon A. Lambert
- Internal Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Internal Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Starting characters (was: Alright...) Jamie Norrish
- Starting characters (was: Alright...) Jamie Norrish
- Starting characters (was: Alright...) Jeff Kesselman
- Starting characters (was: Alright...) Jon A. Lambert
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Matt Chatterley
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Adam Wiggins
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Matt Chatterley
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Adam Wiggins
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Travis S Casey
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Jeff Kesselman
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Nathan Yospe
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Jon A. Lambert
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Nathan Yospe
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Matt Chatterley
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Marian Griffith
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Travis S Casey
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Matt Chatterley
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Adam Wiggins
- Spoken Languages & Food [was RP thesis...] Jeff Kesselman
- Pidgin Language & Writing [was RP Thesis] Matt Chatterley
- Resets, repops and quests Alex Oren
- Resets, repops and quests Jeff Kesselman
- Resets, repops and quests Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Resets, repops and quests Ling
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests Matt Chatterley
- Resets, repops and quests Todd Lair
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests Jeff Kesselman
- Resets, repops and quests Raz
- Resets, repops and quests Alex Oren
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests Raz
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests Nathan Yospe
- Resets, repops and quests Alex Oren
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Resets, repops and quests Shawn Halpenny
- Resets, repops and quests clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Resets, repops and quests Adam Wiggins
- Resets, repops and quests Chris Gray
- Resets, repops and quests Alex Oren
- Resets, repops and quests clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Resets, repops and quests Huibai
- Resets, repops and quests clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Resets, repops and quests clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question Jeff Kesselman
- Nutirtion and a Resource Question clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Conventions (was RP thesis) S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Conventions (was RP thesis) Jeff Kesselman
- Conventions (was RP thesis) Adam Wiggins
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do DESIESE] Matt Chatterley
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do DESIESE] Jeff Kesselman
- Numbers [was RP thesis...] Matt Chatterley
- RP thesis... (Chinese stuff) Ling
- Meta issues [was Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...] Matt Chatterley
- Meta issues [was Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...] clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Meta issues [was Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...] Matt Chatterley
- Important: Posting requirements coder@ibm.net
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Adam Wiggins
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Jeff Kesselman
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Jeff Kesselman
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Jeff Kesselman
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Jeff Kesselman
- Goal orienetd NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- Goal orienetd NPCs Nathan Yospe
- lots of stuff, sigh. Chris Gray
- Levels and Goals [was Alright..IF your gonan do Jon A. Lambert
- Probability (was: Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...) Shawn Halpenny
- Quests [was Resets, repops and quests] Matt Chatterley
- Quests [was Resets, repops and quests] Shawn Halpenny
- Quests [was Resets, repops and quests] Jeff Kesselman
- Quests [was Resets, repops and quests] Ling
- Quests [was Resets, repops and quests] Matt Chatterley
- Aims [was Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...] Matt Chatterley
- Habitat Data clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Habitat Data clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Habitat Anecdotes clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Habitat Anecdotes Chris Gray
- Social Dimensions of Habitat's Citizenry clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Social Dimensions of Habitat's Citizenry Jeff Kesselman
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Jon A. Lambert
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Jeff Kesselman
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Jeff Kesselman
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Jeff Kesselman
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Ling
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat Chris Gray
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat coder@ibm.net
- Oracle Layza's Tales from Fujitsu Habitat clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Powergamers [Was..Alright If] ashen
- Taming free PK ashen
- Taming free PK Marian Griffith
- Taming free PK Adam Wiggins
- Taming free PK Jeff Kesselman
- Taming free PK clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUDs - An environment, not a game Adam Wiggins
- MUDs - An environment, not a game Raz
- MUDs - An environment, not a game Adam Wiggins
- DESIGN: The Rules of Magic (fwd) Nathan Yospe