October 2004
- intellectual history T.L. Taylor
- intellectual history Mike
- Text-tospeech (Was Shift in time) Mike Rozak
- Text-tospeech (Was Shift in time) Mike Rozak
- [NEWS][BIZ] China to limit online gaming Ghilardi Filippo
- TECH: Punkbuster type technology and why we don't see any big name MMOG's using it David Wright
- ADMIN: Attitude, this list, and moderation J C Lawrence
- (no subject) Unknown
- PvP and teamspeak? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PvP and teamspeak? Victor Wachter
- PvP and teamspeak? Corey Crawford
- PvP and teamspeak? Brian Hook
- PvP and teamspeak? Victor Wachter
- PvP and teamspeak? Ghilardi Filippo
- PvP and teamspeak? David Johansson
- PvP and teamspeak?
- PvP and teamspeak? Douglas Goodall
- PvP and teamspeak? Matt Mihaly
- PvP and teamspeak? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PvP and teamspeak? Matt Mihaly
- PvP and teamspeak? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PvP and teamspeak?
- PvP and teamspeak? Matt Mihaly
- PvP and teamspeak? Corey Crawford
- PvP and teamspeak? Ling Lo
- PvP and teamspeak? Dana V. Baldwin
- PvP and teamspeak? Cosmik
- PvP and teamspeak? Cosmik
- PvP and teamspeak? Mike Rozak
- PvP and teamspeak? Corey Cauble
- PvP and teamspeak? Ghilardi Filippo
- Text-to-speech (Was Shift in time) Mike Rozak
- Why do smart people grind? ceo
- Why do smart people grind? Geoff Hollis
- Why do smart people grind? Matt Mihaly
- Why do smart people grind? Miroslav Silovic
- Why do smart people grind? ghovs
- Why do smart people grind? Oliver Smith
- Why do smart people grind?
- Why do smart people grind? neild-mud@misago.org
- Why do smart people grind? Kirinyaga
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Brett Bibby
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Cosmik
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Russ Whiteman
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Matt Mihaly
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Ted L. Chen
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Per Magne Bjørnerud
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Paul Canniff
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design darksuit
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Sean Kelly
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Richard A. Bartle
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Richard A. Bartle
- [SPAM] DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- [SPAM] DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [SPAM] DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Tess Snider
- [SPAM] DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Byron Ellacott
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Damion Schubert
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Damion Schubert
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Corey Cauble
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Amanda Walker
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Corey Cauble
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Douglas Goodall
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Brett Bibby
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Douglas Galbi
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Ted L. Chen
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Douglas Galbi
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Richard A. Bartle
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Tess Snider
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Lost Penguin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Mike Rozak
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Dana V. Baldwin
- DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Damion Schubert
- Newsweek prints an article reguarding the selling of virtual currency Chris
- Newsweek prints an article reguarding the selling of virtual currency Chris
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Michael Hartman
- Cheating in the world Michael Hartman
- Cheating in the world Paul Schwanz
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Paul Schwanz
- Cheating in the world Damion Schubert
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
"Damion Schubert" <ubiq@zenofdesign.com> writes:
> The crux of your argument appears to be that MUDs are worlds and
> not games. All MUDs and MMOs are some combination of world, game
> and community, and the most successful games are a fairly equal
> combination of all three.
Yes, or rather, I argue that the unique characteristics of MUDs are
related to the world and not the game, and that the game can get in
the way if the MUD is not treated as a world. I.e. if you need to
know the rules of the game before visiting the world, it really is a
game and not a world. I am in other words trying to draw a line
between games with a world slapped on top of it and a carefully
crafted world with games in them. I am not saying it is easy to make
MUDs...
I also see an increasing need to define what the distinguishing
characteristics of a MUD are as more and more UN-MUD like multi user
game designs informed by single user game approaches flood the
market. I am not at all convinced that knowledge from one domain
(game) will benefit the other domain (world). Basically I think the
"world" is going to suffer. And I don't see the 3D homepage spaces
as viable alternatives either... I.e. they are something completely
different. (rhetorically speaking)
> When thinking about 'world', one of the cornerstones of the
> 'world' component of online gaming is immersion. When players
> cheat, the immersion shatters, and players are snapped out of the
> 'world'.
Especially if they are quite confident that they know the rules. ;-)
> Case in point: UO at launch was probably the most 'world'-like of
> all of commercial MMOs that launched. Much of the cheating was
> because of simplistic systems designed specifically to create a
> virtual world without thinking of their impact on 'game' or
> 'community'. But even the most ardent fans of the virtual world
> could not mentally adapt or put up with exploiters building
> staircases out of spoons to climb into the top windows of their
> opponents houses to loot them from the inside.
Why is this an exploit? That suggests that it was a flawed design,
doesn't it? What makes the design flawed? That you can climb on
spoons or that somebody had a burglar visiting? If it was the latter
then this really is just an example of the game getting in the way
of the world IMO.
> If the management of UO hadn't had a change of heart and started
> coming down on cheaters hard, everyone would have fled, and then
Well, the point is, I don't understand why climbing on spoons is
cheating. To me, that is depth.
If it is a world, the management of UO shouldn't be of any concern
to me. I am not going to walk around in a world and ask myself "Hmm,
wonder if the management of UO would disapprove of this or
that?". It seems perfectly reasonable that if the physics of the
world allows me to innovate, I should very well benefit from it.
(I'll make an exception for interface exploits that are based on
range-checks etc as that may not be part of the world. Although
some players might feel it is.)
--
Ola - http://folk.uio.no/olag/ - Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Dana V. Baldwin
- Cheating in the world Ted L. Chen
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Matt Mihaly
- Cheating in the world Shannon Sullivan
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Shannon Sullivan
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Fred Snyder
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Cheating in the world Zach Collins (Siege)
- Cheating in the world Miroslav Silovic
- Cheating in the world Corey Cauble
- Cheating in the world Shannon Sullivan
- Cheating in the world Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Will players pay for public services? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Will players pay for public services? ceo
- Will players pay for public services? ceo
- Will players pay for public services? Matt Mihaly
- Will players pay for public services? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Will players pay for public services? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Indies unite? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Indies unite? Mike Rozak
- Indies unite? Mike Rozak
- Indies unite? Boris Triebel
- Indies unite? Dana V. Baldwin
- NEWS: Oblivion RPG's (next version of Morrowind) NPC AI Mike Rozak
- NEWS: Oblivion RPG's (next version of Morrowind) NPC AI Mike Rozak
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Johan
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Matt Mihaly
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Daniel James
- R: BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Valerio Santinelli
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Dana V. Baldwin
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution HRose
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Vincent Archer
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Johan
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Matt Mihaly
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Tamzen Cannoy
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Ghilardi Filippo
- [OT] Europe & Distribution Ben Carter
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Ghilardi Filippo
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution ceo
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Michael Hartman
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution HRose
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Dana V. Baldwin
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Erik Bethke
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Bloo
- BIZ: Europe & Distrubution Per Vognsen
- [OT] Hi all an first time MMORPG designer tries to get in the loop Sam Byard
- [SPAM] DGN: Effect of voice chat on game design Tess Snider
- MEDIA: Chris Crawford on Interactive Storytelling Mike Rozak
- Sweatshops? Tess Snider