August 2000
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook William Katzell
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- Release of Blood Drops ver 0.1 adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping -- An anecdote Zak Jarvis
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Dmitri Zagidulin
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Greg Underwood
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Nathan Clemons
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Tamzen Cannoy
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Matt Chatterley
- World Event Model adam@treyarch.com
- World Event Model Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Christian Loth
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matt Chatterley
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Sellers, Michael
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Jon Callas
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Sanvean
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. adam@treyarch.com
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Bruce
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Matthew Mihaly
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Mud Evolution Koster, Raph
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Lord Ashon
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Neddy Seagoon
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Christoph Seifert
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Mud Metrics Justin Rogers
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Josh Rollyson
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Merillat
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Shiovitz
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Scion
- Law of Resource Congestion ens017@mizzou.edu
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Andy
- World Event Model (Christian Loth) Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] Christoph Seifert
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Majesty (was: Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind) Chris Jacobson
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] (long/technical) Christoph Seifert
- Skotos News & Skotos @ Gencon Christopher Allen
- Harry Potter stuff Timothy Dang
- Harry Potter stuff Chris Gray
- Harry Potter stuff Matthew Mihaly
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Brett
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Koster, Raph
- Constraint as a Design Problem Christopher Allen
- an opportunity Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Norman Short
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Schubert, Damion
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Shawn L Johnston
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants John Buehler
> Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 10:27 AM
> Evidently, you want some interaction between the ones
> who have carte
> blanche immunity from war and the ones who are engaged in war.
1. I want to geographically separate areas where war is being waged from areas
where war is unheard of.
2. I want war to consist of players versus gamemasters, not players versus
players.
3. I want a feathering of danger levels from the almost purely combative areas
to the almost purely peaceful areas.
Number 1 ensures that players must make a conscious decision about whether
they want to be in combative areas or peaceful areas. Number 2 ensures that
the combative actions are directed at NPCs, not at other players. Because the
combative NPCs are only in specific areas, players don't control where the
combat will take place. Only the gamemasters will control this. Number 3
ensures that players will be able to pick what sort of danger level they want.
Nobody has carte blanche immunity from war. Geographic locations ensure
immunity from war because there's nobody who wants to engage in war there.
Because I don't believe in instantaneous transportation, this means that in
order to flee from combat, you do it the old fashioned way. And even while
leaving the combat area, you might encounter a roving band of monsters who
snuck in behind the good guys' lines. That's because number 3 above says that
the danger level goes down at a ramp, not stepwise full-to-none.
But
> it will be very
> difficult to keep such interaction from directly influencing the
> war. And if it
> influences the war, then it should not be invulnerable. If those
> who are farmers and
> merchants can impact the war, why can't the war impact them? But
> perhaps you won't
> allow any action which can truly impact either side? At this
> point, I think you'd be
> better off to provide two different games, or the same game on
> different servers.
You may be assuming player versus player war. I don't believe that such a
thing is tenable, given all the goals that I have in mind.
> The game world *will be* predicated on surviving a bunch of nuts,
> whether those nuts
> have big knives or not. ;-)
Granted.
> Stamp collectors and warmongers coexist in real life. Stamp
> collectors, however, are
> not *guaranteed* a life of peacful existence. In fact, it behooves
> stamp collectors
> to pay taxes and vote in order to promote a government which will
> protect their way of
> life. If stamp collectors are given no guarantee of immunity from
> war in real life,
> why should they be given one in a virtual life? Yet this lack of a
> guarantee doesn't
> seem to keep stamp collectors from enjoying their pursuits in real
> life. Why should
> it keep them from enjoying a game? Of course, warmongers are not
> guaranteed conquest
> either. How can you cast your net wider than this?
Let's stop implicitly debating this topic. The game is about entertainment.
Stamp collectors aren't interested in the thrill of doing stamp collecting in
a war zone. You claim that stamp collectors keep doing their thing in real
life even when war is a possibility. I tell you that when war comes along,
THEY DO NOT ENJOY IT. The game is about entertainment.
When we have 'war' in these games, the players do not experience wounds
personally. Their characters do. The players don't look into the shocked and
anquished eyes of their opponents as they hack them down. They don't smell
the carnage after a battle. They don't feel the slipperiness of blood on
their armor and their clothes. Why? The game is about entertainment. We
sanitize war so that it is 'entertaining'.
There are many concessions to entertainment that we make in these games. A
lack of need for washing, cleaning, sleeping, visiting the garderobe, etc.
Those things are significant in the ebb and flow of mortal humans' lives and
would significantly impact the way that the virtual world works, but we don't
put them in. The game is about entertainment.
I'm trying to bring together lots of different types of entertainment in ways
that are interesting to the afficianados of those kinds of entertainment. The
guys having their war don't have a bunch of powerful pacifists come in and
call off the war. The bad guys don't suddenly just retreat and never come
back. That's not entertaining for those interested in combat.
I don't want players hopping into other games when they get tired of killing
things - or being killed while stamp collecting. I want players to simply
travel to a different place in the world with their same character. Or to
stay where they are and see if they can pull off that new form of
entertainment in the circumstances that they're in. It's all up to the
player.
> Why can't we make them other than conscienceless superhumans so
> that they can be kept
> in line by realistic measures?
Sure. One character per player, combined with permadeath. No reprieves, no
resurrections, no workarounds.
Not very entertaining.
> Why not make the virtual world more like
> the real world by
> trying to give characters a conscience and restricting unrealistic
> superhuman
> capabilities instead of making it less like the real world by
> inserting arbitrary and
> unrealistic guarantees about a player's ability to pursue stamp
> collecting? In the
> real world, *all* things are permissible...even pursuing war against stamp
> collectors...but not all things are expedient. Stamp collectors
> should be given the
> ability to ensure that making war against them is not expedient,
> but I think that
> making it impermissible is a step in the wrong direction.
Tell me how it would work. Any response that I could offer would be based in
speculation on what you have in mind.
JB
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Ian Macintosh
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants Jeff Freeman
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Richard A. Bartle
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Zak Jarvis
- Object Representations? KevinL
- Object Representations? Lazarus
- Object Representations? Patrick Dughi
- Object Representations? Phillip Lenhardt
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Mordengaard
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Re:[gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) Christoph Seifert
- UO Virtues Schubert, Damion
- UO Virtues John Buehler
- Object Representations? Robert Zubek
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Joe Andrieu
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Bruce
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] John Buehler
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matthew Mihaly
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Michael Tresca
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Milne, Alistair
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ian Macintosh
- MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) Nathan Clemons
- Matching and Maximizing: How players choose between activities John Hopson
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Ananda Dawnsinger
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Crime Ben
- Cooperation vs Competition Ron Moore
- Cooperation vs Competition Jo Dillon
- [Moebius] MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) KevinL
- FW: UO rants John Buehler
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Lovecraft
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Shawn L Johnston
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Matthew Mihaly
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Zak Jarvis
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- Playerkilling Pacifists Matthew Mihaly
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- url for The Hundred Years War Ron Moore
- url for The Hundred Years War Marc Bowden
- [paper] The Sacred and the Virtual: Religion in Multi-User Virtual Reality Jon Lambert
- Avatar rights redux Koster, Raph
- Avatar rights redux Dave Rickey
- Holidays Jeff Freeman
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Brad Wyble
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Norman Short
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Warren Powell
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Fraud (was: UO rants) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fraud (was: UO rants) John Buehler
- Transportation Ron Moore
- Transportation Madrona Tree
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) gmiller@classic-games.com
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) Erik Jarvi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Kristen L. Koster
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Patrick Dughi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Travis Casey
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Alex
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Lazarus
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Marc Bowden